A long chain of write ups on, regarding the one topic of which , each is seeing a part of the elephant only. Subject of corruption. Even the learned say if big wealtth given what he will do?; and he replied that it will be guarded as his own; and there was a surprise. Was there any corruption or not? Where there is tax, there exists the term black money; where there is no tax, all is white money; so how earned is wiped out; if so is there no corruption in that nation? Certain issues are discussed only as a board meeting described, in the Parkinson's Law; level headed. Tirukkural defined corruption as in the economic treatise Artha sastra did. Some people did not study either fully and as kids rejoice on waste jokes, so too make merry without any resemblances of the truth. Artha sastra only said a tax collector only must do as a bee sucks the honey from the flower; meaning don't break the hen, which is yielding the eggs. But the tax evaders and the corrupt minded, think otherwise as said by the CBDT. Thiruvalluvar says- *A person who had conquered his sense and remain without any crime in mind , even if he is in poverty , will not aspire for other's property.( Kural 174 )* இலமென்று வெஃகுதல் செய்யார் புலம்வென்ற புன்மையில் காட்சி யவர். (174) வெஃகுதல்= Illegally and immorally aspiring for other's wealth or in short , corruption In simple words, "People who have controlled their desires , even if they are in utter poverty, will not involve in acquiring other's property ( corruption )." THAT IS CORRUPTION IS DEFINED AS ACQUIRING OTHERS' PROPERTY OUT OF DESIRE. Using the *political powers *and purchasing others property for a bottom price is a corruption. Using the * administrative powers *and getting a huge commission in a deal is a corruption. Using the *social powers *and grabbing the lands of the poor is a corruption. Using the *religious powers* and keeping the devotees in ignorance is a corruption. Using the *police powers* and eliminating an individual in a fake encounter is a corruption. Using the *Muscle power* and threatening the traders and collecting mamuls is a corruption. Using the *Government funds *to donate to the sacred places and praying for divine protection is a corruption. But , to-day the corruption is justfied in many ways. *Politicians say* , " when we had spent crores during the election, why not earn ?"Thir Doctors say, " when we had given more than a crore for a MD seat, why not earn ?" Police inspectors say, " when we had paid in lakhs to get a particular station, why not earn? " Vice- Chancellors say," when we pay in crores to occupy this seat, why not earn ?" Corporate companies say, " when we had donated in crores to the political parties, why not earn ? Every corrupted person has many reasons to justify. Corruption is leukemia of our country , corrupt cells flow from ' head to toes ', the entire cells should be replaced. "When and How" is a big question. *Lokpal bill may give an initial push*, but there will be a terrific long journey before the birth of a corruption free India . The journey may extend to years, we should not expect instant remedies. Miracles can not be done. Political corruption had contaminated the entire government machinery, which needs years to clean. *There cannot be a corruption without the nexus of politicians and bureaucrats .* *They are the conjoined twins, their selfish combination is the basis for all types of scandals.* For common people, the corruption is the bribery at RTO office, Ration office, Municipal office, Registrar office, etc People's mindset should also be changed. Some feel corruption is a necessary evil, for them corruption helps to get the work done quickly. I asked a vegetable vendor, " Why are you people changing the government once every five years? " I expected that he would say, " to teach politicians a lesson " but he said, " all are looters, why should the same fellows loot continuously, let one group loot this time, another next time." Thiruvalluvar says in the kural 179, *For wise people who do not covet others treasure,* *Fortune will arrive according to their ability. (179)* அறனறிந்து வெஃகா அறிவுடையார்ச் சேருந் திறனறிந் தாங்கே திரு. ( 179) திரு.= Fortune, Covet = wrongful desire In the Kural 171 he says that corruption or covetousness will bring disgrace to the person and his family. Thiruvalluvar warns that the corruption will destroy one's own family by leading to commit many more corruptions. Kural 171 says, *If a person covets others belongings , **he will bring disgrace to the family and fall into unlimited errors.* *நடுவு இன்றி நன் பொருள் வெஃகின் குடிபொன்றிக் **குற்றமும் ஆங்கே தரும்.( 171 ) **நடுவு இன்றி = in an unjust manner*. *வெஃகின்* * = greed = *பேராசை ( the word *வெஃகின்** is rarely used in Tamil ) **The greed to obtain others belongings by illegitimate means ** will bring disgrace, **Compel to commit many errors and destroy the family*. *Bribery* is not the only corruption. The following acts are also corruption. Extortion ( illegal use of power to amass others properties) Cronyism ( favouring close friends) Nepotism ( favouring close relatives) Cartel (collectively controlling the market price for their benefits ) Selling expired date products. Booth capturing in an election. Evading tax payment. Receiving disproportional commissions. Misusing Government funds and many more. The world in general is filled with desire; so the majority who always are churning the people whom they don't like, chatting about others and welfare of others are all worse than the corrupt. Hence there is no point in debating whether Karl Marx is corrupt or The Koutilya. K Rajaram IRS 27 7 23 tan kutram neeki pirer kutram kangir pin.........
On Wed, 26 Jul 2023 at 06:20, 'N Sekar' via iyer123 < iyer...@googlegroups.com> wrote: > Thanks sir. > > *If I remember correctly as the last time I read the Mahabharatham was > quite a few years back*, there is an incident in Mahabharatham thus: > > When Parikshit is cursed to die bitten by a snake (Thadakan, the serpent > king), one brahmin named "Astheekar" goes to meet the king as he has the > powers (Mantra Shakthi) to cure any snake bite and is met by Thadakan on > the way. > > Thadakan advises Astheekar to go back as there is nobody who can nullify > the effects of Thadakan's bite. Astheekar says he can and then in a > demonstration of their powers, Thadakan bites a tree which is reduced to > ashes. But to Thadakan's utter surprise and dismay, Astheekar revives the > tree to its original glory. > > Seeing this and acknowledging Astheekar's powers, Thadakan then requests > him not to go to Parikshit and promises him that he, Thadakan, would give > him as much and more in wealth (ponnum porulum in Tamizh) as Astheekar > would have got from Parikshit. > > Astheekar agrees to this and returns after accepting the valuables from > Thadakan. It is implied here that Astheekar wanted to help Parikshit only > because he thought Parikshit would give him money and if he gets it from > Thadakan, what difference would it make. > > In addition, Thadakan also promises Asthhekar that anyone who utters > Astheekar's name would not be harmed by snakes. > > I recite Astheekar's name if I go to villages where snakes are ever > present in the fields; like the age old belief in T N to repeat Arjuna's > name in case of thunder. > > Yes, corruption is as old as, perhaps, the oldest profession. Haven't we > read Chanakya's Artha Shastra where one of the four methods of silencing > the enemy ( Sama, Dhana, Beda and Tanda) is to bribe the enemy's men. > > Our history is replete with such instances Sir where, for bribes (apart > from personal enmities like Prithivi Raj - Jeyachandran for example), the > close confidants of the rulers opened the gates of otherwise well > fortified forts from the inside. > > Thanks > > N Sekar > > > On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 03:19:41 PM GMT+4, 'gopala krishnan' via > KeralaIyers <keralaiy...@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > Even during Mahabharatha period, there was corruption. I read elsewhere > the Brahmin who had come to cure Jnamejeyae, was stopped in mid way by Naga > king, he was offered attracting things, he left with out going to > Hasthinapuram, and hence the end of Jnamejayae. > > With in us every body is corrupted. Even there is no marginal difference > is the TRUTH > Gopalakrishnan > > On Wednesday, 26 July, 2023 at 03:44:14 pm IST, 'N Sekar' via KeralaIyers < > keralaiy...@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > Thanks Mani sir for your mail understanding the forward in the spirit in > which the message was written. > > I must confess that I was a bit apprehensive when I forwarded that message > as it could be very easily misunderstood, and it seems it has been. > > Let me clarify for what it is worth, as there could be others who might > hold similar views as seen in a couple of responses. > > The way I understood the message and my response to some of the > observations are: (Purely my interpretation and *I admit others are > entitled to their views* but pl give me chance to explain) > > *The broad message the post conveys is Corruption is not limited to taking > bribes as it is generally and widely believed to be but includes a vast > array of other acts which we commit without even being aware of the fact > that we are guilty of corrupt practices. It extends the meaning and scope > of what corruption is, that's all.* > > *This message or for that matter any saying, addresses a very broad and > general point and does not address individual, exceptional situations. * > > *There are always exceptions and there is no such thing as "one size fits > all". * > > *We have all heard the saying "The Golden Rule is that there is no Golden > Rule". It says it all. * > *Take the broad message, if you will, and don't nit pick.* > > *Now my explanations:* > > 1. Sugar: > It means that don't adopt double standards - one with your money and the > other with another's. Yes, you have paid for the coffee you can take as > much sugar as you want but try not to misuse that privilege. > > It does not address what a diabetic should do or not do. > > Let us not stretch the scope and meaning and instead, see it in the > broader context. > > 2. Tissues:: Same as above - try to minimise the usage as you would do at > home. Obviously if the floor is dirty one would naturally use more water as > in our case, and tissues as the west does. It talks about normal, similar > situations. > > 3. Food: It is general human tendency to indulge, when something is > offered free or the items are unlimited for a given fee, like the lunch we > pay for in a hotel. It is quite common that people will eat more on special > occasions as in parties but all it tells us is to take as much as you want > but don't waste (not being able to finish). Again, some acts committed > without an intention to commit that, don't fall under this category - they > are exceptions. All that we can do is get the leftovers packed if possible > ( in the U S it is a common sight in many restaurants), and be careful next > time we order. That's all. > We all learn from our past acts. Mistakes need not be repeated. > > 5. *Usually jump Queues: *The key word here is "usually". We all jump Qs > at times, in most cases after saying "Excuse me" if we are in a hurry. > > We ourselves have given way to pregnant ladies, ladies carrying babies, > senior citizens and others like the Differently abled, because we recognize > their special, specific needs. > > Why, there are separate Q for senior citizens even in the temples and we > don't grudge them because of the same reason. > > A VIP or a minister who is entitled to special treatment by Law (for > security reasons, among others) will be given preference and for good > reason. That is understandable but what is meant here "Don't flaunt your > status" or ask for privileges you are not entitled to. > > In that context, it says jumping the Q (for example, because you know > someone in that place) is also a corrupt practice. > > I have witnessed how ordinary folks, just because they know some VIP, get > a letter from him and jump the Qs at Tirupathi. How do I know? because they > say so, in the mistaken belief that their contacts will impress the > listeners. > > What they don't realize is how Balaji will look at it, considering there > are thousands of poor folks, with babies and young children who wait for > hours and these worthies consider it no wrong to do that. > > This message is meant for those people. > > I feel guilty Sir in buying tickets and go in a separate Q as it is also a > form of corruption but satisfy myself somewhat that the money I and others > like me pay is used to provide more amenities to those thousands and also > because it is legal as is done officially and is available to all who can > afford it. But Conscience hurts when you meet those folks, where the > Special Q the general one converges and you hear them telling how they are > standing there for 12 hours or more while we waited under 3 hours. We can't > be all saints at all times. > > I may recall here that Sri Kakkan ji, a minister in the Kamaraj cabinet > has set an impossible example to follow. Why do we recall him now? Because > he never misused his position even though he could very easily have. > > His character is well known to many in T N and we wonder whether such > people really existed only a few decades back, amongst us. Rarest of the > rare breeds, Sri Kakkan ji was. > > 6. Surname: It means family names (including castes) should not matter > when we deal with people but what should matter is the individual on a > stand alone basis, with no suffixes. - we should respect someone based on > what he is and not based on his pedigree, whether he is from Eton or Doon > School. Flaunting the surname or getting influenced by it is also act of > corruption though it has become a routine practice now. > > We all should be proud as Indians, because if surname matters that much, > an ordinary tea seller could not have become our P M. Dharna still exists > and it gives us hope. > > 7. Jumping red lights: We have seen how even today some brat, just > because his father is a minister or some such, disregards police signals > and traffic lights. Yes, ambulances, fire engines and police vehicles can > and do jump Qs and traffic lights after ensuring their and others' safety > because they do that to serve a large cause and are done in the discharge > of their duties. Where this motive is unselfish, no questions are asked. > > This message is only for those spoilt kids and their likes - as mentioned > above. > > 8. Throwing waste -- self explanatory, hopefully. > > I have tried to explain to those who may have genuine doubts about the > forwarded message in the hope that it is now understood in the spirit in > which it was written. > > My Guru used to say - where two views are possible for a given message, > take that which is positive, one that unifies people than the one that > divides and try and see what you can learn from it - what to do and what > not to do. > > Extreme views help nobody. > > I will conclude with another response I received in my private mail. > > The talks about a question asked of an Interviewee who will have vast sums > at his disposal given the nature of his job. Let us assume for a moment > that there will be no audit and such things; The question was How will the > person deal with that money and the reply left the Interviewers perplexed. > The fellow replied saying that he will deal with that as if it was his > own - how to interpret that? > Whether the fellow will use it as he pleases or will be careful on how > and where he spends it, as he will do with his own. > > Like this, any message can be interpreted based on one's views; variety is > the spice of life, isn't it? > > Thanks > > > N Sekar > > > On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 10:25:10 AM GMT+4, Rajaram Krishnamurthy < > keyarinc...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Whereas the bloke senile wrote some nonsense, here I enjoyed the > rejoinder. But again, by giving one rupee as alms, one would say , how will > he survive with one rupee; if 100 is given it is spoiling him; then > altruism itself is so bad; because , it would make people lazy; dhanam to > Vadyar on rituals is also bad; as it would make the vadhyar also bad. > Either way having money is corrupt; having no money and begging also will > make one lazy. What is the correct definition of corruption? > I had seen a lot of diabetics violating rarely as they also become > frustrated; when controlled so fastidiously by wife, better to violate for > fun. Thank you KR IRS > > On Tue, 25 Jul 2023 at 21:42, Jambunathan Iyer <n.jambun...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > My Answer in Light terms > > KR 1 Suppose I spend a lot, because I have more money; and when a > beggar appears I give him a hundred bill; what am I? Because I am corrupt > as I have corrupt money, so throw off OR altruistic personality and one who > develops the economy of the nation as I roll over the money? Which one? > > NJ - I took it as action of corrupt since you are courrupting the Mind of > the begger and create Laziness in his mind and he will never work. > > 2 As a diabetic my wife does not show me the sugar before me at > all; so when I went to a hotel, with my friend, in Chola sheraton, costing > a fat suim even for a coffee, I added more sugar and drank. Am I corrupt? > OR the suppression of the desire coming out? > > NJ - It is also an act of corruption. Adding sugar in your coffee or tea > at home or at Chola if you are diabetic is against your health condition > and if you add at restranst the sugar it is wrong and amout to be a act of > corruption. > > 3 In home, I keep all clean and so use less tissue; when I drove my > car from Sanjose to Los Angeles ( as all the quotes are not from India) and > had to use the RR; so entered; and found dirty one; scattered on the floor > pieces; and so I had to use a lot of tissues to clean and over the toilet > and even spread to sit; and then use and again had to cleanse i do use and > come out. Who am I? A corrupt? OR cleaning the toilet for the oncoming to > use less than I used ? SoA service minded? > > NJ : I agree to your Vuew Point But what Mani Ji mentioned is for one to > one useage. > > 4 And we went to Saravana Bhavan Santa clara; was hungry; someone is > going to foot the bill only; and ordered for sambar Vadai and Ghee roast > and mango Lussi; When it came I was startled; 3 vadas plus so big sized > and a lot of side dishes; the roast was stretching to the next table; and > definitely though I can consume two normal Vada and aordy dosa, Nor this > kind of 3 days Lunch. So I had to leave it back as return is not possible; > And I hate TO GO. Who am i? A CORRUPT/ or whatever one cannot do by > spoiling one's health leaving rest as undesirable. A health conscious? > Saving money from the Doctor for someone else? Was there greed? And for > that in each hotel can any one ask for the measurements? > > NJ : Both are correct. General conclusion Not Possible. > > 5 In many offices, one can see for officers and for other staff and > for Public; why? Are the application of work of a professional and his > assistants equally "the same"? If yes, equal pay for the equal work; if not > the reason. Time is precious. Status is there however though people talk so > nicely. And in a common pool when the actress Kshboo arrived for a cool > drink and she is 100th in the Q, people recognising her , let her go to the > front so she does, does it show that she's using her celebrity? A king is a > king. The senior citizens are allowed to in front cutting the Q. So cutting > the Q may not always mean one is showing the power though it is that power > only entertains them to go forward. It is a tricky situation. Will PM Modi > stand behind me and come in the Q?; at the time of elections such Gimmicks > may be seen. > > NJ : Again here to Both are correct. General conclusion Not Possible. Only > circumstances matter. > > N Jambunathan Rengarajapuram-Kodambakkam-Chennai-Mob:9176159004 > > *" What you get by achieving your goals is not as important as what you > become by achieving your goals. If you want to live a happy life, tie it to > a goal, not to people or things "* > > > > On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 6:37 AM Rajaram Krishnamurthy < > keyarinc...@gmail.com> wrote: > > It is seen in another group far away from me; Of Course the background of > the assessment is not presented; at the same time whether it is proved to > be candid is also not known. Whether the deduction is universally > applicable or whether scientifically justifiable is also not known What was > that forwarded? > Corruption self examination* > - If you usually put more sugar in your tea when in a hotel than you do at > home, you're likely to be corrupt. > - If you use more tissue in a public washroom than you do at home, you are > a potential thief, if given opportunity you would take what's not yours. > - If you serve yourself more food that you can finish just because someone > else is footing the bill, you're greedy. > - If you usually jump queues, you have potential for abusing office if > given a powerful position. > - If you are more concerned about knowing someone's surname rather than > first name, you're likely to be a tribal bigot. It's even worse when > someone tells you their name and you ask, "which tribe is that?" > - If you usually overlap while in traffic jam or have no regard for > traffic lights, then you would easily embezzle public funds if you're given > a position at a public office since you hate regulation . > - If you channel waste or dirty water from your compound to a neighbour's > compound rather than manage it, you're ill-mannered. > If you look at this post and wonder whether it was really necessary to > talk about these issues; then you are dishonest and you would easily cover > up ills in the society for your own benefit. > Let us try to be people of character wherever we find ourselves. > If you Smile to yourself, Probably , you're clean. > If you Brush this aside, there is something you want to hide. > CANDID SELF TEST > xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > KR 1 Suppose I spend a lot, because I have more money; and when > a beggar appears I give him a hundred bill; what am I? Because I am corrupt > as I have corrupt money, so throw off OR altruistic personality and one who > develops the economy of the nation as I roll over the money? Which one? > 2 As a diabetic my wife does not show me the sugar before me at > all; so when I went to a hotel, with my friend, in Chola sheraton, costing > a fat suim even for a coffee, I added more sugar and drank. Am I corrupt? > OR the suppression of the desire coming out? > 3 In home, I keep all clean and so use less tissue; when I drove my > car from Sanjose to Los Angeles ( as all the quotes are not from India) and > had to use the RR; so entered; and found dirty one; scattered on the floor > pieces; and so I had to use a lot of tissues to clean and over the toilet > and even spread to sit; and then use and again had to cleanse i do use and > come out. Who am I? A corrupt? OR cleaning the toilet for the oncoming to > use less than I used ? SoA service minded? > 4 And we went to Saravana Bhavan Santa clara; was hungry; someone is > going to foot the bill only; and ordered for sambar Vadai and Ghee roast > and mango Lussi; When it came I was startled; 3 vadas plus so big sized > and a lot of side dishes; the roast was stretching to the next table; and > definitely though I can consume two normal Vada and aordy dosa, Nor this > kind of 3 days Lunch. So I had to leave it back as return is not possible; > And I hate TO GO. Who am i? A CORRUPT/ or whatever one cannot do by > spoiling one's health leaving rest as undesirable. A health conscious? > Saving money from the Doctor for someone else? Was there greed? And for > that in each hotel can any one ask for the measurements? > 5 In many offices, one can see for officers and for other staff and > for Public; why? Are the application of work of a professional and his > assistants equally "the same"? If yes, equal pay for the equal work; if not > the reason. Time is precious. Status is there however though people talk so > nicely. And in a common pool when the actress Kshboo arrived for a cool > drink and she is 100th in the Q, people recognising her , let her go to the > front so she does, does it show that she's using her celebrity? A king is a > king. The senior citizens are allowed to in front cutting the Q. So cutting > the Q may not always mean one is showing the power though it is that power > only entertains them to go forward. It is a tricky situation. Will PM Modi > stand behind me and come in the Q?; at the time of elections such Gimmicks > may be seen. > We have to learn things from the standards of life; a disciplinarian knows > it; the normal human knows it; only the perverts and the complex , yoke > things which they cannot achieve as attributions to something else. It is > mutual complacency. There may be several factors to do a thing. > Deductions must be corroborative and not complexly jinxed. > K Rajaram IRS 26 7 23 > > On Tue, 25 Jul 2023 at 16:34, APS Mani <m...@manijpn.in> wrote: > > Very candid tests, Sir. Thanks, Mani > > On Tue, Jul 25, 2023 at 6:58 PM 'N Sekar' via iyer123 < > iyer...@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > sharing > Corruption self examination* > - If you usually put more sugar in your tea when in a hotel than you do at > home, you're likely to be corrupt. > - If you use more tissue in a public washroom than you do at home, you are > a potential thief, if given opportunity you would take what's not yours. > - If you serve yourself more food that you can finish just because someone > else is footing the bill, you're greedy. > - If you usually jump queues, you have potential for abusing office if > given a powerful position. > - If you are more concerned about knowing someone's surname rather than > first name, you're likely to be a tribal bigot. It's even worse when > someone tells you their name and you ask, "which tribe is that?" > - If you usually overlap while in traffic jam or have no regard for > traffic lights, then you would easily embezzle public funds if you're given > a position at a public office since you hate regulation . > - If you channel waste or dirty water from your compound to a neighbour's > compound rather than manage it, you're ill-mannered. > If you look at this post and wonder whether it was really necessary to > talk about these issues; then you are dishonest and you would easily cover > up ills in the society for your own benefit. > Let us try to be people of character wherever we find ourselves. > If you Smile to yourself, Probably , you're clean. > If you Brush this aside, there is something you want to hide. > CANDID SELF TEST > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "iyer123" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 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