Respected friends,
I compile Questions and Answers to the questions in my cultural QA postings.
This is done by eminent scholars. They answer to the point. Answers are brief
to the point.
The question was How Romans measured the time in medieval period. Answer was
that they had only 8 hours in day and 8 hours in night and how it was
calculated in summer and winter. The person answered had mentioned Sun dial
usage.
I went through Mr Rajaram's lengthy response. These things were mentioned in
it.
Sirs,
Gopalakrishnan is a compiler. I ignored Mr Rajaram's statement-"Mr
Gopalakrishnanalways writes main issues only as a fallacy as he does not read
anything butbelieves firmly that Quora as great scholars; oncourse water stands
at its ownlevels"
It is general nature of Mr Rajaram to copy paste pages. Yesterday he had
intimated Mr Narayanan, he will not post mails with any abusing words.
Now every one can observe again Mr Rajaram has started with madasamrani-
abusing.
One can read Mr Narayanaswamy mail- There is no abusing word used by him. There
are satirical words based on Mr Rajaram's response.
There is difference between satire and abuse.
Gopalakrishnan
On Monday, 19 February, 2024 at 07:46:52 am IST, Rajaram Krishnamurthy
<keyarinc...@gmail.com> wrote:
Gibberish Narayanasamy only your gopala wrote that nonsense and you were
silent then? I wrote Roman was stupid like you and Indians had better ideas.
Your eyesight is poor madasamrani
On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 at 20:00, Narayanaswamy Iyer <iyern...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear folks
Notorious know-nothing go-block super-ignoramus with granite head and vacuum
skull K Rajaram ex-IRS 18224 alias karuppan-chaami has an incurable habit of
shooting off his mouth and trying to obfuscate all other by unloading tons of
totally irrelevant matter to pad his nonsensical boring dissertations.
Above gibberish-rant is no exception.
In village Kerala, we as conscientious little children had an easy-to-make and
easy-to-read timepiece to tell the time when to stop playing and when to go
home.
We simply stuck a strong straight stick of known length vertically into the
ground, and measured its shadow cast by the Sun. When the Sun was overhead, no
shadow was cast, and it was noon. We could tell, from shadow-reading when it
was nine, ten in the morning, and two, three, four o'clock in the afternoon
without much bother.
At night, we filled with water to just below the brim, a brass vessel with a
little hole beneath it, hung it from the rafters, and we let the water drip
into a set of brass tumblers placed one on top of the other beneath it. By
measuring in kinnams and uddharanis the water in the tumblers, we could read
the time, by the light of the night-time kuththi-vilakku.
S Narayanaswamy Iyer
On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 11:54 PM Rajaram Krishnamurthy <keyarinc...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Ancient Roman Timepieces
George Cupcea,“Timekeeping In The Roman Army,” The Hour Glass, Published
07.07.2018.
Mr Gopalakrishnanalways writes main issues only as a fallacy as he does
not read anything butbelieves firmly that Quora as great scholars; oncourse
water stands at its ownlevels. The Above book from IOWA university reveals with
a lot of referenceitself that Roman as G does Cand P from east. Parasara Hora
sastra existed inIndia long ago as Parasara age can be predicted we all try to
find daily goodand bad HORA only from there. EVERY HOUR AFTER SUN RISE SHOWS
THE horaCONTINUOUSLY AND CHAANGES AUTOMATICALLY THE NEXT DAY.
It goes like this:
SUN>SUKRA> Budha> Moon> Saturn> Guru>Mars. & planets each an hour which is in
Sanskrit HORA. This is the order. Todayis Sunday So suryodaya hora is SUN; next
hour is Sukra; next hr budha; next ismoon; next is Saturn; next hr is guru
hora; then mars Hora (7 hourspassed). Then again 7 cycles (another 7hours
passed). Next same cycle on this Sunday;7 more hrs making so far 21 hrs
passed. Then SUN being 22 hr; sukra being 23hr; Bhudan the last 24th hour; NEXT
IS MOON THE MONDAYAUTOMAATICALLY WOULD ARISE ON THE SUN RISE ON MONDAY. If you
go like this willend guru hora and open the next day automatically on Mars
Tuesday; so, on goesin finding HORA state.
SUN hora isbest for govt work executions; budha is chosen for education
and beginningcourses; Moon hora is the best for travel; Saturn is not a good
hora and soavoid; Guru hora is the best for anything; Mars hora is good for
registrationof land etc; thus day to day work was assigned by Parasara apart
from teachingastrology or time predictions. Parasara HORA and Varaha mihira
samhita based onthat in Sanskrit is famous ; kadalangudi publications are
available.
Nowextracts from the book quoted above: George Cupcea
“Romansheavily borrowed and imitated technology fromcultures they encountered
across the Mediterranean, and Roman sundials andtimekeeping was developed from
their influences and encounters with these othercultures. Sundials are surfaces
with an object casting a shadow throughout theday to indicate the time based on
the sun’s position relative to theshadow-casting object. The first record of a
sundial in Rome is 293 BCE according toPliny, and the dials were based on Greek
sundials. Dials were created primarilyfor the public, and most Mediterranean
clocks found are from marketplaces,temples, or other public locations.
Whensundials first came to Rome they were not fully understood. Asundial was
taken from Sicily and displayed in Rome, but the dial was used incorrectly for
99 yearsHowever, this was not detrimental to the general population. Concerns
for ascientific method of timekeeping arose later in the 6th and 5th
centuriesbecause Romans began wanting their clocks to pay closer attention to
the cosmosand calendar.6
Time Increments
Romans didn’t use minutes or seconds like modern times,but they did use the
concept of an hour. The hour was their smallest unit of time, but theirhour was
different than today’s version of an hour. Ancient Romansadopted an Ancient
Egyptian method of timekeeping by dividing the daylight anddarkness into 12
increments each.8 This method ignores the season and changinglength of day. In
Rome, an hour was closer to 45 minutes in winter and 75 insummer.9 However,
most clocks and dials were not detailed beyond hoursaccording to Denis Savoie,
an astronomer specializing in sundials. Hours wouldtell when meeting, dinners,
or other activities would be, but Roman hours wouldnot track as closely and
carefully as today. Alexander Jones, curator of anexhibition called “Time and
Cosmos in Greco-Roman Antiquity” at the Institutefor the Study of the Ancient
World in New York, comments that being 15 minuteslate would not be a cause for
impatience or complaining.
Romansknew they were being imprecise, but there was no call tocreate a more
accurate system until the third and second centuries BCE.13 However,Julius
Caesar in 54 BCE was said to have mentioned night hours are longer inBritain
than in Rome. This was demonstrated by using a water-based timepiece toshow a
standardized amount of time versus the variable sunlight. Latitudedifferences
are the main cause for this difference.
Owners of portable sundials would still have a decentapproximation of time in
far off places including, Ethiopia, Spain, orPalestine . This would be
impressive and something to be proud of in manycultures, and the number of
discovered sundials indicates they were widely usedby the Romans. However, some
felt less impressed by the idea of increments oftime in a day. In one of his
plays, Plautus complains about the day being"chopped into pieces" by sundials
and time.
Literary References
Literature has given insights to sundials in more thanjust Plautus’ play. In
25BCE, the Roman author and architect Vitruvius listed all the kinds of dials
andthe Greek inventors in Book IX of his De Architectura.20 The bookuses the
word “arachnen” meaning “spider’s web” when referring to the hourlines cut into
the stone, and this webbing was found on all types of dialslisted . The
differences in his listing of types depended mainly on the surfacethat received
the shadow, and is similar to the modern categorization ofsundials. Vitruvius
claims that despite an abundance of information on clocksand portable clocks,
building a sundial was limited to one’s understanding ofthe celestial sphere
above. This lack of understanding by the general publicwas why timekeeping
remained a luxury for the elite.
Types of Timepieces
Three main types of timepieces used in ancient Roman timeswere the sundial,
klepsydra, and obelisk. Inspired by the Greeks and Egyptians,these early clocks
relied upon either the sun or water. Sundials and obelisksdepend on the sun,
but time still had an impact on the Roman people on cloudydays and at night.
Klepsydra were typically used in interiors, at night, andon cloudy days. A bowl
of water with a small hole in the bottom was inspired byGreek traditions in law
courts, and the vessel would pour out the water over apredetermined length of
time . This practice is similar to modern sandhourglasses and functioned
similar to a timer used in modern times, andklepsydra translates to hourglass.
Unlike the sundial, a klepsydra kept aconsistent length of time despite
shifting latitudes and seasons.
The Solarium Augusti is a pair of nodus-based obeliskscasting a shadow on a
planar surface. Most obelisks come in pairs but have beenseparated from their
neighbors over time. One Solarium Augusti obelisk, calledHorologium Augusti,
was an ancient Roman monument built during the reign ofAugustus . Originally,
the obelisk was 30-meter tall and made of red granite. Ithad been brought from
Heliopolis in Egypt, and was called the Obelisk ofMontecitorio. This solar
marker functioned as a sundial, and acted as a gnomoncasting onto marble
pavement with a gilded bronze web of lines that indicatedthe time of day
according to the season. Dedicated to the Sun 35 years afterJulius Caesar's
calendar reform, the obelisk was placed so the shadow of thegnomon fell across
the center of a marble altar on 23 September to commemorateAugustus’ birthday.
This symbolized Augustus’ control of Egypt by the Romanempire.
Over time Pliny the Elder stated that the HorogiumAugusti’s casting had shifted
and become incorrect, but it remained standinguntil the 8th century CE.37 Then,
the obelisk was thrown down and broken onlyto be rediscovered in 1512. Pius VI
re-erected the obelisk in Piazza diMontecitorio in 1789.
The Lateran Obelisk is the largest standing ancientEgyptian obelisk in the
world (Figure 7). It was from the temple of Amun inKarnak and moved to
Alexandria. Then, Constantius II had the Lateran obeliskshipped to Rome. After
the fall of the Western Roman Empire, it and aneighboring obelisk fell. The
Lateran was re-erected in 1588 CE.44
Other obelisks in Rome were taken from Egypt, and otherswere commissioned from
Egypt. Although obelisks are prone to falling or beingtoppled down, some still
exist or have been re-erected. At least eight obelisksmade in antiquity by the
Egyptians were taken to Rome after the Roman conquestand stand today.46 This
includes the Lateran Obelisk, its neighboring obelisk,and the Solarium Augusti
obelisks. An additional five obelisks stand that werecommissioned by wealthy
Romans from Egypt in ancient Roman times, or they werebuilt in Rome as copies
of ancient Egyptian originals. Many no longer have thewebbing designs needed to
tell time.
Vitruvius’ use of the word “arachnen” in Book IX of his DeArchitectura referred
to the hour lines cut into stone sundials. There arefour main types of sundial
in antiquity: spherical, conical, plane, andcylindrical. Each kind of dial has
distinct differences, but all involvedreading and understanding these webs
drawn from paths of shadows over time.Sundials were often used in sunny weather
so the shadows of the gnomon wouldcast but many have broken off . They all have
a gnomon point, but the maindifference is in what type of surface the shadows
travel over.
Spherical dials were round shapes and came in manysubtypes. Hemispherical dials
with central and non-central placed gnomon pointexist, and they resemble bowls
or domes . There are also cut spherical dialsthat look as though a slice was
taken from a hollow ball or bowl . Quarterspherical dials look like an orange
slice or a quarter of a ball . Roofedspherical dials are a ball of stone with a
hole for a gnomon point, so a dot oflight travels the path shadows would on
other types of dial . Spherical globedials are rounded stone resembling a ball
with time indications etched intothem. The Globe of Matelica was likely part of
an ancient Roman sundial fromthe first or second century .
Conical dials were cut in a conical slice shape with thevertex above, below, or
on the horizontal top surface. To picture a cone, thefamiliar ice cream cone is
helpful to imagine. To get an idea of a vertex aboveconical dial, think of
breaking the tip of the cone off. The outline of thecone will leave either an
oval or, if done perfectly level, a circle. The vertexabove conical dial was
similar to the ice cream cone, but the break cuts thetip of the cone off at an
angle so the entire point and part of the originalice cream hole are gone . The
other conical types have the same idea but atdifferent angles.
Planar sundials are dials that trace the cast shadowacross a flat surface or
relatively flat surface. Obelisks are planar and trackthe sunlight on the
ground for their surface. Horizontal, prime vertical,meridian, and deviating
dials are all similar, but have different webbing oflines to indicate important
times and the equinox . Planar dials are primarilyundecorated besides red paint
traces found in hour lines and day curves. However,some lines have been inlaid
with gold, or gilded bronze.
The cylinder dial was also called the shepherd's dial forthe shepherds, who
would trace the webbing design on their staffs. Around thetop of the staff
would mark the months, and the shadow would cast from thegnomon point onto the
long staff in a series of arches . The point the marklands on the arch would
indicate the time that day. Some cylinder dials werewebbed to be read at
different angles, so there are inclined cylinders andvertical cylinders.
Stone sundials often had reliefs and decorative moldingsadded . These designs
included vines curling, rosettes, lion motifs, andstylized legs holding the
dials up. Decorative additions were found on manytypes of sundial, but designs
were rare on planar dials due to avoidingobstructing the important webs and
labels that were detrimental in reading thetime.
One conical dial had geometric figures rather thanrosettes similar to a
carpenter’s square . The shape embodies Euclid 2definition 2 “And in any
parallelogrammic area let any one whatever of theparallelograms about its
diameter with the two complements be called a gnomon,”so any area with four
sides can be explained as a smaller quarter of the areawhere the point at the
center creates the gnomon. The word gnomon comes from the Greek word meaning
carpenter’ssquare, and a carpenter’s square is an L-shaped tool with its two
sidesat right angles. Euclid’s use of the word is doesn’t require the sides be
atright angles. The gnomon is a point of motion that creates an important
shapesimilar to how sundial gnomon points showed a motion that indicates time,
andthis understanding adds another level of significance and
mathematicalunderstanding to the dial itself.
An altitude sundial uses the height rather than thedirection of the sun to tell
the time.68 These dials needed adjustment for thedate, since the sun is higher
in the sky in the summer than the winter .However, not every vertical dial was
an altitude one; some used the shadow castby a string and depends on the sun's
direction. Some designs of altitude dialwere useable in any latitude with
manual adjustments, but some were specific toone latitude.
Portable dials offered more freedom to Roman travellersthat a fixed stone ever
could. The owner could travel while still knowing thetime, but this came with
difficulties beyond high expenses. The portable dialswould only show half of
the day, so the owner needed to know if the sun wasrising or setting even
during difficult times around midday. Prelabelledlatitude adjustment points
were made to lessen the struggles of adjustment incommonly visited places, but
the latitude label was not always perfect. Northernlatitudes were less accurate
places for Mediterranean dials in the height ofsummer and low of winter.
Adjustments were manual though, so they could becorrected if the owner knew how
to correct the error. However, the owner couldeasily make mistakes in
adjustment and reading, but the owner never needed toknow which way North was.
One type of portable dial, the user turned a smaller diskwithin a larger disk
to account for latitude and turned a pointer on thesmaller disk to account for
the month. Then they held the device on a string orchain facing the sun, and
casted a shadow across hour markers on the pointer. Anotherdesign was three
nested rings, and the user tilted the innermost horizontalring based on
latitude. Then spun the outside until a beam of sunlight couldpass through a
small hole to reach hour markers. This model was collapsible tohelp with
additional portability .
Who Used Ancient Clocks
One group that utilized timepieces was the military.Military groups woke, ate,
marched and slept at predetermined times. Some unitswere required to walk a
predetermined distance every hour, and the ability tokeep track of the
approximate time helped the organization and pace needed toconquer and travel
the ancient world. To continue moving, the military oftenused portable sundials
to keep track of the time.
Fixed sundials of stone were used in more public andpermanent settings.
Magistrates often paid for the construction of sundials inimportant political
locations around their city, so sundials had a politicalrole and connotation to
them in earlier Roman times.
The island of Delos in Greece was abandoned in antiquity,so it shows a
relatively undisturbed site to learn about sundials. Dials wereoften found in
public areas, and very few dials were found in private homes. marketplacesand
temples were popular locations to find fixed stone sundials. However, Delosalso
contains a stone sundial that is out of place. The dial was made forEgyptian
latitudes, so it is likely the sundial was taken from Egypt.
Pompeii was also abandoned in antiquity due to theeruption of Mount Vesuvius,
so the city also had good materials left fromancient times . However, Pompeii
differs from Delos. Pompeii had many dials inprivate homes. Most Pompeii public
dials have since been moved to museums,including the Oscan cone. The sundials
of Pompeii were usually not of highquality and often had incorrect latitudes.
The large demand for personal andprivate dials caused a higher demand for dials
than a few dials in publicareas, so the quality was lowered to accommodate the
demand. Pompeii sacrificedprecision for simpler construction.
Construction
Ancient Roman dials were often crudely constructed and set up, butthe
acceptance of approximation by the people made the simple and
impreciseinstruments acceptable. However, sundials, even in antiquity, could be
madeexactly correct. The performance of a dial relies on the fineness of
theengraved lines, the attention of the observer, and their understanding of
thelaws of optics. Stone dials had carved lines to indicate the month and
equinoxbecause these lines depend on latitude. Fixed sundials of stone were
installedwhere they were intended to be used, so the latitude would not change
on these.All the types of fixed sundial were able to be made exact, but the
portablesundial needs a level of approximation.
The designers of portable sundials were aware of theapproximations they made
and were satisfied with their drawings, calculations,and trials. The error in
portable dials were quite small for latitudesdesigners intended the dials to be
used in, but the error was still noticeable.Designers settled for the small
error to meet the demand for dials. To makethese important instruments, there
were workshops and craftsmen whose main jobwas making these clocks, and
inscriptions indicate the presence of workshopswith highly specialized
craftsman making timekeeping devices.
Inscriptions
Some of these designers and makers of sundials can beidentified using
inscriptions on stone dials. Stone clock inscriptions werefound across the
Mediterranean in both Greek and Latin . Additional languagesfound on sundials
or fragments thought to be sundials are Greek, Latin,Nabatean, Oscan,
Phoenician, and neo-Punic. These inscriptions tell some namesof people who made
and commissioned sundials, and the inscriptions indicateplaces, when the dials
were made, and astronomical terminology of the time.
Sundials are notoriously difficult to date because thestone cannot be
carbon-dated or dated by the objects around them, andadjustable dials were
often found without context or rediscovered in storage. Theuse of centuries of
mathematical and astronomical work make it difficult toplace dials in a
specific time, but they must be younger than the concisemethod of writing
latitude. The latitude listings are significant because theyshow how Romans had
the freedom to travel but remain connected to the Romanworld. Constantinople is
listed on some portable sundials as an option forlatitude, so those dials can
be dated to after 330 CE.103 Romans didn’t grow upwith the detailed maps modern
people have access to, so they had to build apicture of the world around them
by traveling and learning as they went.
Romans frequently learned from other cultures across theancient world, and they
copied and improved upon technology of othercivilizations. Timekeeping was
developed in this way. Sundials, obelisks, andklepsydra were used by the elite
and public to tell and keep track of time intheir growing and organized
society. Knowing the time based on the true motionof the stars, Earth, and Sun
is something often glossed over when modern peopleask for the time. Time can be
known in an instant without going to a marketplaceor fiddling with dials, but
it wasn’t always so simple.
K Rajaram IRS 18224
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