Yes sir Pncha is significant and the word Dravida also especially wrt the
acharyal matams. KR IRS
On Wed, 15 May 2024 at 23:45, 'Bala N. Aiyer' via KeralaIyers <
keralaiy...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> The South-Indian Brahmins belong to the Pancha-Dravidas, and the
> North-Indian Brahmins are Pancha-Gauras. There are several families in
> Madhya Pradesh who carry a last Name as "Dravid" - and they say that they
> are originally from South India and were there for hundreds of years. I had
> a friend with that name in the Indian Army. There is a cricket player,
> well-known, named Dravid.
>
> Bala N. Aiyer
>
>
> On Wednesday, May 15, 2024 at 10:14:17 PM CDT, Rajaram Krishnamurthy <
> keyarinc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Pitu Gotra Part 15 How many brahmins 3 KR IRS 15524 16524 (contd)
>
> The Madhvaas date from the recent reform activities
> of Madhvacharya (somewhere in the 12th century) also of the Vaishnava
> sampradaya , and they were prominent in the last days of Vijayanagar
> (1500's) . A famous guru of the line was Raghavendra swami. (They are
> found all over Karnataka, south Maharashtra, Tamil Nadu as well as Andhra).
> Their roots include a strong Marathi one, and a north Indian connection as
> well.
>
> 2 m) Draavidulu: Draavids, who seem to be north Indian Brahmins
> who arrived in coastal Andhra. Dravidas are further divided into subcastes
> like Aaraama-dravidulu, Peruru-dravidulu, Rayali-Draavidulu, Divili
> Brahmins, Peruru-dravidulu, Tummagunta Brahmins etc based on the locations
> they settled. Some of these Dravida Brahmins belong to Rigveda school
> and some belong to Krishna-Yajurveda school. The Telangana Vaidiki Brahmin
> caste to which Goutamiputra- Satakarni belonged to is a Dravida Brahmin
> caste (?). This group belongs to Rigveda school. {Recently a Telugu film
> was also released on Gudami Putra Satakarni}
>
> ( And Dravida belonged to south whereas some TN political are
> displaying a tamil meaning graphing them only as Dravida; Adi Shankar in
> Soundarya lahari addressed himself as :DRAVIDA SISU meaning from Keral;
> that was tarnished by sone TN illiterates as denoting Gnana sambandar born
> in TN, is being spoken by Adi Shankara as Dravida sisu; hence Adi Shankara
> should have existed only after Gnana sambandar ; and thus with the help of
> so many Officials relating to the particular Mutt following Adi Shankara
> [which by certain documents was not one established by Adi Shankara] fixed
> the period of Adi Shankara in 700 AD; with the facts changed wrt Adi
> Shankara against many evidences lying across as exited around 750 BCE to
> 450 BCE, pulled down the curtains; in this process, in the web sites, there
> were heated debate , trying to project the real one established by Shankara
> as NON-EXISTENT one; British nailed the period of buddha from not less than
> 1000 BCE born, to 500 BCE against the Sikkim monastery records and history
> of Dharma krithi; our own people twisted to do away from the truth; thus
> our real history was pushed down by 2000 years minimum.] [However, Dravida
> became Tamil was rendered by some as, the root word DRAVIDA, became
> DRAMILA, and then TAMILA @TAMIL])}
>
> Dravida Brahmins of Andhra
>
> 3 There are two major divisions among Brahmins of Andhra Pradesh: Niyogi
> and Vaidiki, and the Vaidiki Brahmin division is further divided into
> several groups, one of which is Dravida Brahmin group that arrived in
> Andhra via Tamil or Dravida (draaviDa) country.
>
> 4 A group of Brahmins migrated approximately 600 years ago (~1300-1400
> AD) from Saurashtra towards south of Vindhyas and settled on the banks of
> River Kaveri in Tamil Nadu and adopted Tamil language. These Brahmins are
> related to the Ayyars of Tamil Nadu. Later, some of these Brahmins
> migrated northward towards coastal Andhra to the River Godavari basin and
> henceforth are called Dravida Brahmins. It is possible that Dravida
> Brahmins migrated to Andhra around 400 years ago from Tamil Nadu. The
> Dravida Brahmin group continued the migration deep into north coastal
> Andhra, settling at various places of their convenience and based on the
> locations they settled in, further divided into:
>
> Aaraama-dravidas
>
> Divili Brahmins
>
> Dravidas or suddha dravidas
>
> Peruru-dravidas
>
> Puduru-dravidas
>
> Rayali-dravidas
>
> Tummagunta Brahmins
>
> 5 Aaraama-dravidas are those Brahmins who settled and lived in gardens
> (aaraamas) initially. They are also called thota aravalu (thota = garden,
> aravulu = Tamils or Draavids). Some Dravida Brahmins settled in the
> villages and are identified by the area or the name of the village in which
> they settled down. For example, the Brahmins who settled in the town Peruru
> near Amalarpuram came to be known as Peruru-Draavidulu. Similarly, the
> Brahmins settled in the towns of Ryali, Divili, Puduru and Tummagunta came
> to be known as Ryali Draavidulu, Divili Brahmins, Puduru Draavidulu,
> Tummagunta Brahmins, respectively.
>
>
>
> 6 The Dravida Brahmins included 6 jaatis@ divisions (clans, tribes), 6
> vamshams (stock or clan), 18 pakshams (parts) and 18 gotrams (lineage)
> and several family names. Due to their expertise and learning, the rulers
> of Coastal Andhra gave not only refuge, but also gifts and rewards of lands
> and Agraharas (villages) to the migrated Brahmins. Dravida Brahmins
> continued their migrations in search of opportunities and are found in
> several states in the Indian Union, especially in the cosmopolitan cities
> like Chennai, Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore etc., and also in the New World.
>
> 7 Dravida brahmins such as perurudaravidas, dhimiladaravidas, Dravidas
> etc. are very much into Vedic rituals like yajnas and yagas.
> Aaraama-dravidas are not big on perfoming yajna and yaagas like others
> Dravida Brahmins, but excelled in Vedic studies, poetry and literature,
> medicine, music, astrology etc. As the Indian society has changed from
> Islamic
> rule to Christian rule to independence and democracy, Brahmins have lost,
> to a large extent, their traditional life style and religious vocations,
> and are left with secular vocations in competition with rich, powerful
> forward castes and privileged SC, ST and BC communities everywhere in India.
> (Book,” The Mouths that Recited Vedas are Grieving” – Though totally
> appeared to be connective, yet the records vbought into that book speaks
> the movements of the brahmins all over India, from Pillar to the post for
> survival; and survival in the last 500 years of brahmins are reflected in
> many volumes written in North India)
>
> 8 Notes:
>
> 1) "aaraamadraavida vamsacharitra," written (1935) by Anamtapadmanaabham
> Dvivedula (1888-1947), published by his son Venkataramarao Dvivedula,
> Samkhavaram, Andhra Pradesh - 533446. To obtain a copy of the original text
> write to Venkataramarao Dvivedula or to:Sankararao A, 6-2011, East Point
> Colony, Chinna Waltair, Visakhapatnam 530023 Venkatarao D, 8-2-1 purohit,
> Peda Waltair, Visakhapatnam, 530017 Kameswararao Nagabhatla, SVVSS
> Devasthanam purohith, Annavaram 533406 or Dhanvantari CVSNLN, No 10 TTD
> Grade I purohit, Purohita Samgham, Tirumala Hills, 517504. Also, Dr.
> Rajgopal Duddu .
>
> 9) Brahmins have been migrating from time immemorial. The Brahmin families
> that migrated made an impact peacefully by example rather than converting
> people by any means. The Brahmin migration to the South features in legends
> of the sage Agastya. The Vindhya Mountain range in central India continued
> to grow higher showing its might and obstructed cloud movement causing
> draught. Sage Agastya decided to solve the problem and travelled south. The
> Vindhya Mountain bowed to Agastya and the sage requested Vindhya to stay
> prostrated until he returns. Vindhya complied with this request and sage
> Agastya never returned to north.
>
> 10 The earliest Brahmins to arrive in Andhra were most probably sage
> Viswamitra's students and progeny around 1200 BC. (again period is recorded
> from the british records only). South Indian kings showed respect and
> patronage for Brahmins and Brahminism since ancient times, e.g., Satavahana
> dynasty that ruled for five centuries and extended over Andhra and
> central India, founded by Srimukha (221-198 BC), supported Brahminism and
> Vedic tradition (History and Culture of Andhra Pradesh, Rao PR, pp.viii and
> 8-22). One of the most important features of Satavahana dynasty was
> granting land to Brahmins. (History of India, Herman Kulke and Dietmar
> Rothermund, p. 102). Sangam era of Chera, Chola and Pandya kings in Deep
> South also used to grant lands to Brahmins (History of India, Herman
> Kulke and Dietmar Rothermund, p. 104). Similarly, there have been
> Brahmin migrations back and forth that continue even today. Due to these
> waves of Brahmin migrations, we see today various sub-castes and traditions
> among Brahmins.
>
> 11 One of those Brahmin migrations pertinent to Dravida Brahmins was
> from Saurashtra { THERE IS ON THE MADURAI SIDE A SOURASTRA BRAHMIN AND NON
> BRAHMIN COMMUNITY SEEN) to the south to River Kaveri. It is not clear why
> this particular group of Brahmins migrated to Tamil country in 13th and
> 14th centuries. However, the period in which the Dravida Brahmins migrated
> was full of strife and destruction due to Islamic incursions in the
> Northwestern Indian Continent (current Afghanistan, Pakistan and present
> Western India), including Gujarat. Saurashtra forms part of the area where
> the ancient Saraswati River existed. Saurashtra is also known as Soruth
> and Sorath, a former state in the Indian continent, located on the
> Kathiawar peninsula of western India, which is now part of the Indian State
> of Gujarat. The Rig-Veda refers to the River Saraswati as a mighty river
> flowing from the mountains to the sea and was adored as the nurturing
> mother of a civilization, which drew its life sustenance on the banks of
> the river. It is not clear if the southward-migrated Brahmins are related
> to Saraswat Brahmins of this region who migrated to other parts of the
> Indian continent.
>
> 12 From the River Kaveri region, they migrated to various other parts
> of Tamil Nadu and up north into Andhra Pradesh somewhere between 600 to 300
> years ago. (NOT SURE OF THE PERIODS) Some of the Aaraamadravida Brahmin
> families have migrated from Kumbhakonam, an ancient temple town in Tamil
> Nadu on the banks of river Kaveri, 194 miles away by train from Chennai.
> Kumbhakonam has mythical connections - visit Kanchi Kamakoti peetham site.
> (and history shows Kanchi mutt shifts between Kanchi to Kumbakonam back to
> Kanchi and back to Kumbakonam and back to Kanchi; when The Kanchi mutt was
> at Kumbakonam, Trichy akilaandeswari was given a maragadha- set so
> valuable; which was contested by another Mutt because of which Adi Shankara
> date was altered; in the British days , after an ordeal the Kanchi Mutt won
> the case; in that dictum, the original value of Kanchi Mutt is found and
> incorporated as that of Adi Shankara as another evidence; however that is
> being denied by the other groups also)
>
> 13) Although it is not clear when Dravida Brahmins migrated to
> Andhra, according to Anamtapadmanaabham Dvivedula (ref 1), about 300 years
> ago they adopted Telugu language and integrated with Telugu speaking
> people. If we consider the studies on language adoption in the US, the
> immigrants (first generation of immigrants) and their offspring (second
> generation immigrants) continue to speak their native tongue as well as the
> language of the land. The third generation of immigrants forget their
> ancestral language or only a small minority in that group maintains
> bilingualism. Speaking only English is the predominant pattern by the third
> generation in the US. Thus, by extrapolation, we may assume Dravida
> Brahmins began migrating to Andhra around 400 years ago, which is, of
> course, an assumption. It could be 600 years to 2500 years ago!
>
> 14) Some of the aaraamadravida family names (see ref 1):
> Allamaraaju,/ addamki,/ addamki bhaagavatulua,/ ayilaavajhala,/
> abbaavajhala,/ akkapamtula, /annapamtula,/ anamtapamtula, /avadhaanula,/
> akkabhaagavatula, /anamtavjhala, /ayitta, / anivilla, /aakomdi,/ aayupilla,
> /upamaaka, /oarigamti, /oaleti,/ kamchi, /kaakaraparti,/ kaakara,/
> kaakaraala, /kaaraadavajhala, /kaampamtula, /kaamavarapu, /koochibhotla,
> /kolloori, /komdaari,/ kolgamti,/ koata, /gamdavarapu,/ goakulaanamdam,
> /gummaa, /charla,/ chellapilla, /chakravartula, /chaamarti, /chilakamarti,/
> chimtalachervu, /chittapamtula, /tampella,/ taatapoodi, /tirumaamidi,/
> toata, /dvivedula, dvivedi, /dvibhaashyam,/ duddu,/ sasiraaju, /naldeegela,
> /nrusimhadevara, /narasimhadevara, /pamtula, / pullaapamtula,
> /puraanapamda,/ paalamki, /pinnimti, /peddimti,/ podila, /ponnapalli,
> /perumaalla,/ paina, /patraayudu,/ ballamoodi, /bulambu,/ boani,
> /bhaagavatula,/ brahmayila,/ bheemasoala, /bhairavabhatal,
> /madhunaapamtula, /madhuraapamtula,/ maddaal, /madhurakavi,
> /mahendravaada,/ maarepalli, /muddu, /munnamgi,/ raavooru, /raamanugula,/
> raamavarapu,/ raajulu,/ raaghavabhatlu, /raamabhaktula, /varadaa, /vajhala,
> /vedula, /sannidhi,/ saamavedula, /soamayaajula etc./
>
> 15 Usually, Telugu Brahmin family names are based on their vocation,
> villages, awards, recognition etc. Family names like Kuchibhatlu,
> Nagabhatlu, Bhairavabhatlu, Raghavabhatlu, etc. are names based on
> "battir", Tamil word for pundit. Some say that Bhattu is a derivative of
> bhata, which means a person who works for hire and as these Brahmins were
> hired by kings for various priestly duties, they are called bhat-lu. It is
> also said that Brahmins who considered themselves as bhattus (servants) of
> their family God (kula-daivam) gave their family name as bhattu or bhatla
> of their family God. For example, Nagahatlu means bhattus of Naga or snake
> God. Raghavabhatlu means bhattu of Lord Raghava or Rama. Pamtulu,
> Madhurapamtulu, etc. based on their recognition as pamtulu, which means
> pundit or guru or teacher. Ponnapalli, Marepalli, Kolluru, Addanki, etc
> are based on village names. Vedulavaru, Dvi-vedulavaru, etc. based on their
> learning in vedas and others like soamayaajula are based on ancestral
> achievements, jobs and deeds. ( has this “battir” got to do anything with
> “battar”?)
>
> 16 It should be noted that some of the above family names of Brahmins
> are also found in various other castes and tribes, especially those
> related to villages. So, it is not correct to assume that a person with a
> family name listed above to be an aaramadravida Brahmin.
>
>
>
> 17) Around 400 years ago, coastal Andhra was under the rule of Tuluva
> dynasty. Srikrishnadevaraya ascended to the throne in 1509 and brought
> peace and glory to the Andhra. Telangana was already taken over by Muslim
> rule, several centuries ago. Quli Qutub Shah of Golconda (Hyderabad),
> Ismail Adilshah of Bijapur and Gajapatis of Orissa waged wars against
> Vijayanagara dynasty. The reign of Srikrishnadevaraya was considered to
> be the Golden Age of Telugu literature. Soon after Srikrishnadevaraya,
> Quli Qutub Shah defeated Vijayanagar dynasty and Andhra came under Muslim
> rule for the first time. Later, British took over coastal Andhra and
> formed Madras province combining with Tamil land. (See History and
> Culture of Andhra Pradesh, Rao PR.pp. 92-153)}
>
> 18 n) Madhvulu: Madhvas are the followers of Sri Madhvacharya, (a
> k. a. srimad Anandateertha), the 13th century saint-philosopher of
> Karnataka, India . They were prominent in the last days of Vijayanagar
> (1500's). Raghavendra swami was a famous guru of this caste. They are
> found all over Karnataka, south Maharashtra, Tamil Nadu and Andhra and have
> very strong roots in Maharashtra and the north.
>
> 19 o) Velanati Vaidikulu: The Velnadus are most numerous class of
> Vaidiki Brahmins. Vallabhachari, who in the 15th century attained great
> success as prophet, and whose descendants are worshipped almost as gods
> still Rajputana, Gujarat and Maharashtra was a member of this caste. The
> Velnadus are most numerous in the Godavari and Krishna districts.
> Colonies of this caste are found in the erstwhile Mysore State (Karnataka),
> except Kadur.
>
> 20 p) Telaganyulu or Telaganadu Vaidikis: The Telaganya Vaidikis are
> as numerous as the Velnadus and found mostly in Telangana, chiefly in the
> Northeastern part of erstwhile Hyderabad Kingdom.
>
> 21 q) Venginati Vaidikulu: The Venginadus are chiefly found in the
> districts of Godavari and Vizianagaram, formerly known as the Vengi
> Country.
>
> 22 r) Kaasalnati Vaidikulu: The Kasalanadu derive their name from
> Kosala, the ancient name of Oude, from where they migrated to Kalinga
> Country, where they are found now.
>
> 23 s) Muraknati Vaidikulu: Murakanati Vaidikis are found mostly in
> the country south of the River Krishna. They are numerous in Karnataka.
>
> 24 t) Gouda Brahmins are teachers and priests. They belong to Sukla
> Yajurveda and Kanva Madhyandina Sakha and have the family names such as Joshi,
> Ojjhulu etc.
>
> 25 u) Adisaivulu: They belong to Krishna Yajurveda school. These
> Saiva Brahmins are further devided into several castes such as Kanchisaivulu,
> Antarvedisaivulu, Balajipetasaivulu, Tiruvalngadusivulu, Sakteya Brahmins
> etc.
>
> 26 v) Saivulu: The Saivite Brahmins follow the Saiva aagamas. However,
> they study Vedas also and belong to Krishna Yajurveda school. One of the
> sects of these saivite Brahmins is called Aradhyas.[Mallikaarjuna
> Panditaradhyudu (1120-1180) was born into an Araadhya Brahmin family and
> lived in ‘Drakshaaraamamu City’ in the district of Godaavari. His teacher
> was Kotipalli Araadhyadeva. He was the most powerful among the Shaivite
> Brahmins and was famous for his supernatural powers. He defeated Buddhists
> in the court of King Velanati Choda of Chandavoalu kingdom and
> established Shaivism.
>
> 27 "Shivakavi Yuagamu" is an era of Brahmin Shaivite poets in the
> history of Telugu literature. This is considered to be the time between
> Nannaya
> and Tikkana (12th century AD). Famous poets of this era are Nannechodudu,
> Mallikarjuna Panditaradhryudu, and Palkuriki Somanadhudu. These three
> poets are known as Shivakavi Trayamu (trinity of Shaivite poets) and
> belonged to Kalamukha Shaivite sect. Veerashaivites believe that
> Panditaaradhyudu is the incarnation of ‘Pramadha’ and as powerful as Lord
> Shiva. He is also one of the three Shaivite priests known as
> 'Punditatrayamu’ or "the trinity of Pundits," who devoted their life to the
> spread of the religion of Shiva, ‘the Shaivism,’ in Andhra Nation. The
> remaining two Pundits are Sripati Punditudu and Manchena Punditudu.
> Mallikaarjuna proved that the Supreme Lord Shiva was the ultimate God and
> was superior to any other God. He condemned and prevailed over all
> half-hearted Shaivites. He successfully Brahminized the Shaivism and
> established Araadhya Shaivism, which is followed by Araadhya Brahmins. He
> was a Pundit in Andhra, Kannada and Sanskrit languages. He composed Shiva
> Tatvasaaramu,
> Lingodbhavagadyamu, Rudramahima, Gunasahasramaala, Amareswaraashthakamu,
> Parvatavarnanamu, etc., in Telugu, and Basavageetamu, Prabhulingastotramulu
> in Kannada.
>
> 28 Shivatatvasaaramu is a composition containing 489 verses with
> ‘Kanda’ meter. This is the primary book and standard for Veera Shaivites.
> In this poetry he addresses Lord Shiva as Shiva, Ajaa, Rudraa, Maheshaa
> etc. Mallikarjuna describes in detail the process of ‘Shivadeeksha’ and
> ‘Paashupatashaiva’ principles. In this work he condemns the "Advaita"
> religion, philosophy and "the Maaya argument" of Advaita religion.
> Sirigiri Nundeda Shivasharanu" in Kannada language is the last work of
> Mallikarjuna
> Panditaradhyudu.References:Andhra Vaangmaya Charitramu, Dr.
> Venkataavadhaani DivaakarlaTelugu Saahitya Sameeksha, Dr. Naagayya G.]
>
> 29 They generally run Saiva and Shakti shrines, often very
> large, and famous ones like Kalesvaram, Vemulavada, Srisailam, Kalahasti,
> etc. They have a link to Kashmir Saivism, Varanasi and Jyotirlinga shrines
> all over India like Kedarnath. The rituals they follow are different from
> the smaartas. Aradhyas are in fact semi converted Lingayats. They
> following Basava and attach great importance to Linga worship. However,
> they adhere to Brahminism, recite Gayatri prayers and marry Smarta
> Brahmins. Although Lingayat Saiva religion attempted to dismantle the
> tribal differences, the Lingayats adhere to their original castes
> naturally. Thus, Aradhyas remain designated to be Brahmins, just like
> other castes in Lingayat religion (followers of Basava).
>
> K RAJARAM IRS 15524//16524 TO BE COTND.
>
>
>
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