There is a level needed to understand or else will be writing only LKG
rhymes ring a ringa roses KR
On Wed, 29 May 2024 at 00:49, gopala krishnan <gopa4...@yahoo.in> wrote:
> Mr Rajaram,
>
> I have read the *forwarded article* fully. *What is the topic? What is
> deal with?* So many things non related are told. There is neither head
> nor tail. You have titled Pitu Gotra. Subject told has nothing to do with
> Gotra.
>
>
> *Only thing I make out is about sacred thread. *
>
> The ritual cord (upavīta) may be a reason for distrust. Patrick Olivelle has
> pointed out in a recent article (2012) that the sacred thread makes its
> appearance very late in Brahmanical literature. It is not yet known to the
> Grhyasutras
> and the relatively early Apastamba and Gautama Dharma sutras, and is
> mentioned for the first time in the Baudhāyana and Vasiṣṭha Dharmasūtras,
> around the beginning of the Common Era.
>
>
> *You mean to say that Brahmins did not wore sacred thread earlier than
> Baudhayana and Vasistha Dharmasutra period? What do you mean by the above ?
> *
>
> Gopalakrishnan
>
> On Wednesday, 29 May, 2024 at 08:48:26 am IST, Rajaram Krishnamurthy <
> keyarinc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> PITU GOTRA CONTD 28524 29524 K RAJARAM IRS
>
> The outcome of this Brahmanical transformation was quite extraordinary. A
> thousand years after the establishment of the Maurya Empire (presumably a
> catastrophe for the Brahmins), Brahmanical socio-political ideology
> predominated in an immense geographical area, reaching from Vietnam and
> Indonesia at one end to the western frontiers of the Indian subcontinent
> and Afghanistan at the other. This dominating presence found expression in
> various ways, including the use of Sanskrit, the sacred language of
> Brahmanism, in political inscriptions, in courtly literature, and even in
> an important part of the literature of Buddhism and Jainism. The American
> researcher Sheldon Pollock (1996; 2006) has coined the term ‘Sanskrit
> cosmopolis’ to designate this phenomenon. In order to understand the
> incredible success of the Brahmanical vision of society and politics, it is
> important to recall that it was not the outcome of political conquest or
> colonization. Brahmanism spread by other means than the force of
> arms—initially in the Indian subcontinent, then also into Southeast Asia. The
> spread of Brahmanism is also not a mere matter of religious conversion.
> As noted above, Brahmanism should not exclusively or even primarily be
> thought of as a religion, but as a socio-political ideology with a
> variable religious dimension. Rulers who adopted it, did not necessarily
> convert
>
> from one religion to another, and Brahmanism had no missionaries in the
> religious sense of the term. (Sheldon pollack)
>
> There are the well-known Kushanas dynasty coins with
> (Gandhara-Afghanistan language) Oešo/Śiva standing near the bull and
> bearing trident and lazo,[ “OHÞO is the only Brahmanic god occurring on
> Kaniṣka’s coinage as frequently as Iranian deities.” (Lo Muzio 1996: 163).
> 17: Oešo was particularly popular with Vima Kadphises, who declares himself
> a devotee of Sarvalokeśvara, and with Vāsudeva I, as appears from Göbl
> (1984: 72–74; as well as early Śiva icons. We should also carefully
> consider the reason why in the Mahabharata Śiva is called ‘the God from
> Gandhāra’. An early schist image of Mahiṣamardinī comes from the site of
> Muhammad Zai near Peshawar, and Saivite penetration goes as far as Surkh
> Kotal in Bactria/Tokhāristān. The relative invisibility of Bhāgavatas
> and Pāśupatas in early Gandhāra depends on their taking root in rural
> areas (especially the groups of Pāśupatas) and on the fact that the
> trading class—an object of scorn for the authors of the early Kali Age
> literature—did not find representation among them.
>
> Questions remain. What do we make of the Brahmins depicted in
> Gandharan sculpture? After the entry of Yavanas of the Greek changes
> occurred in these territories. The displacements from Gandara towards
> Kashmir started . Presumably there are plenty of them. “Hermits and
> ascetics, whether young or old, are always represented as typical Indian
> Brahmins wearing the Indian dress or dhoti and shawl, while their hair is
> arranged in a jaṭā-makuṭa or top-knot. They often carry a waterpot and
> occasionally even their upavīta or ritual cord is indicated.” Elsewhere in
> the same article she states (p. 33): “We can . . . draw some conclusions
> from the frescoes discovered in Central Asia and Afghanistan which have
> been preserved due to the dry climate of these areas. First of all there
> are the early wall paintings from Miran in which the Indian elements stand
> out clearly. In the later frescoes from Bamiyan, Kakrak, and Fondukistan
> {dynasties} these are still obvious, especially at the last site. . . .
> Mention may here be made only of the shading of the bodies producing
> plastic effects, the attitude of the female figures, and such details as
> the enormous ear-rings, the striped dresses and the upavīta running over
> the lower right arm, a mannerism which can also be found in Indian
> sculptures of about the same date.”92{all archaeological excavations at the
> British periods) Harrison & Luczanits (2011: P84), similarly, speak of a
> ‘Brāhmaṇa
> type’ that “certainly derives from the iconography of Maitreya, the
> future Buddha, which was already established shortly after the first Buddha
> images were made. He is consistently represented with the loosely tied long
> hair and a water-pot (Kamandalam) both signs of his last rebirth as a
> Brāhmaṇa”. On the same page they mention Maitreya, then add: “or perhaps
> we should say, the Brāhmaṇa type”, and: “or the Brāhmaṇa-type
> bodhisattva”.93 On p. 85 ( How slowly Buddhism changes the Brahmin cult
> being depicted as Buddha as well as a Brahman) they state: “triadic
> compositions in Gandhara consistently balance the two bodhisattva types
> . . . the Brāhmaṇa and kshatriya-type bodhisattvas . . .” The two types
> are contrasted on p. 83, where we learn that the Brāhmaṇa type bodhisattva
> has loosely tied-up (but uncovered) hair, whereas a kṣatriya type
> bodhisattva wears a turban. One might ask how one can be certain that
> Brahmins are depicted in these sculptures. For example, is the textual
> knowledge according to which Maitreya will be born as a Brahmin perhaps
> projected back so as to allow the conclusion that Maitreya must be depicted
> as a typical Brahmin, thus providing us
>
> with a depiction of a ‘typical Brahmin’ without any direct textual
> evidence to support it? But how certain can we be that these sculptures
> represent ‘typical Indian Brahmins’? The ritual cord (upavīta) may be a
> reason for distrust. Patrick Olivelle has pointed out in a recent
> article (2012) that the sacred thread makes its appearance very late in
> Brahmanical literature. It is not yet known to the Grhyasutras and the
> relatively early Apastamba and Gautama Dharma sutras, and is mentioned
> for the first time in the Baudhāyana and Vasiṣṭha Dharmasūtras, around
> the beginning of the Common Era. Does it
>
> make sense to believe that this newly adopted Brahmanical feature found
> artistic expression in regions as far removed from the Brahmanical
> heartland as Central Asia and Afghanistan? Must we conclude that there
> was a Brahmanical presence in those regions merely on the basis of this
> presumed sacred thread? (or were there real declining of the Varna Brahmin,
> moved the south and Buddhist and Yavana Brahmins being sculpted?) Is it
> not possible that others wore a similar thread, and that Brahmins culture
> copied their example? Kreisel (1986: 104) draws attention to a sculpture of
> Rudra whose sacred thread is a snake. Is it possible that the so-called
> Brahmin ascetics are really Saiva ascetics who wear a real or symbolic
> snake over one shoulder? {These questions remain unanswered; but
> Afghanistan to day from the flying Brahmin place once in 3109 BCE, is
> shrouded in the mystery, as to how, history drove out the Brahmin varna for
> the displacements towards projected south bit by bit) It appears that Oesho
> is sometimes depicted with a sacred thread on Kuṣāṇa coins. What is more,
> Gandharan Bodhisattvas, too, can wear a single or multi-stranded amulet
> cord that resembles, or is, a sacred thread May be premature and hasty to
> draw conclusions from this uncertain evidence. Śiva is also known for his
> hair-bun (kaparda), like the so-called Brahmins. Moreover, even
> Bodhisattvas have a top hair knot, even though it is, according to Harry
> Falk (2012a: 496), hidden in a cloth. Are we sure that ascetics with a
> hair-bun have to be Brahmins? Or already they moved down south? Another
> point must be considered. The Buddha himself, according to the early
> Buddhist scriptures, did frequently meet and discuss with Brahmins. One
> consequence of this is that, whether or not there were Brahmins in
> Gandhara, (400 BCE) Brahmins would figure in scenes from the life of the
> Buddha.101 They do figure in scenes depicted in Central Asia in connection
> with the Buddha, as is a Jaina and even an Ājīvika who play roles in
> canonical stories. In other words, a certain number of Brahmins is to be
> expected in Gandharan art even if there were no Brahmins there. Answering
> the question whether this accounts for all the Brahmins in Gandharan art of
> the period close to the beginning of the
>
> Common Era, is, once again, beyond my competence. It is to be kept in
> mind, of course, that there had been Brahmins in Gandhāra, so the
> assumption that there were still some around the beginning of the Common
> Era cannot be totally discarded. It is however good to remember that the
> evidence in support of such a presence is debatable. But with or without
> a physical presence of Brahmins, Gandhara was no longer the centre of
> Brahmanical culture it had once been. Indeed, it had become a region that
> Brahmins avoided. AND WHY BRAHMINS STARTED MOVING DOWN IS BEGINNING TO
> EXPLAIN.
>
> Alexander only visited the northwestern parts of the subcontinent, and
> never reached the Ganges. He visited these northwestern parts at an early
> date, less than a century and perhaps barely more than fifty years after
> the death of the Buddha. To the best of our knowledge, the spread of
> Buddhism seriously started under the Mauryas, that is, after Alexander. The
> same can probably be said about Jainism. It is therefore highly unlikely
> that there were Buddhists and Jainas in the regions visited by Alexander.
> And yet, Alexander met ascetics, near Taxila. The naked sages he met have
> become a topos {(The term "topos" has its roots in Greek. It is derived
> from the Greek word "τόπος" (topos), which translates to "place" or
> "location" in English. In various contexts, "topos" can refer to different
> things: I*n Philosophy and Rhetoric:* In philosophical and rhetorical
> discourse, a "topos" refers to a common theme or argumentative strategy.
> It's a standard rhetorical device or a "commonplace" used to make an
> argument or support a particular point. In literature, particularly in
> the study of narrative and storytelling, "topos" refers to a recurring
> motif, theme, or convention in literature or storytelling.} in Western
> classical literature, so much so that it is probably impossible to derive
> much detailed historical information about them from this literature.
> However, one thing appears to be beyond reasonable doubt. One of the
> Indian ascetics, known by the name of Calanus (Kalanos), accompanied
> Alexander’s
> army back into Persia. Having fallen ill, he then decided to take his own
> life by voluntarily entering into a fire. This event was witnessed by
> numerous soldiers from Alexander’s army, and recorded by several Alexander
> historians.
>
> {Kalanos, also known as Kalanos or Calanus, was an ancient Indian
> ascetic who gained prominence during the time of Alexander the Great's
> invasion of the Indian subcontinent in the 4th century BCE. Here are some
> details about Kalanos: Kalanos belonged to the sect of Indian philosophers
> known as the Gymnosophists, who were renowned for their ascetic practices
> and philosophical wisdom. The Gymnosophists lived a simple and austere
> life, often practicing extreme forms of self-discipline and renunciation.
> Kalanos is best known for his encounter with Alexander the Great. When
> Alexander reached the Indian subcontinent and encountered the
> Gymnosophists, including Kalanos, he was impressed by their way of life and
> sought to engage them in philosophical discourse. Kalanos, in particular,
> made a lasting impression on Alexander due to his wisdom and detachment
> from worldly possessions. According to historical accounts, Kalanos chose
> to end his life through the practice of self-immolation (setting oneself on
> fire) rather than face the physical decline that comes with old age and
> illness. This act was seen as a demonstration of his commitment to his
> ascetic ideals and his belief in the transience of human life. Kalanos's
> act of self-immolation left a lasting impression on Alexander and his
> companions, who were deeply moved by the ascetic's resolve and
> philosophical conviction. Kalanos's story became legendary and has been
> recounted in various historical texts and accounts of Alexander's campaigns
> in the East.} Scholars have puzzled about this voluntary suicide, and have
> wondered what light it might shed on Calanus’s sectarian affiliation.
> Religious
> suicide is well known and accepted in Jainism, and there are cases known in
> Buddhism. But, as pointed out above, Buddhism and Jainism do not enter
> into the picture in the region of Taxila. Some scholars exclude Brahmanism,
> too,
> arguing that suicide in fire is not part of Brahmanism. They end up
> inventing otherwise unknown ascetic groups to explain the riddle. I think
> it is worth our while to have a closer look at Brahmanism. After all,
> Brahmanism was deeply preoccupied with the Vedic sacrificial fire, whose
> victim was often looked upon as a substitute for the sacrificer.
> “self-sacrifice is an all-but-ubiquitous theme in the ritual Brāhmaṇa
> texts, the victim as well as other offerings being regularly equated with
> the sacrificer”.In other words, the sacrificer is or can be the victim in
> his own sacrifice, with the proviso that most often he is replaced by a
> substitute; he is in any case himself sacrificed in his fire after his
> physical death. Clearly there is here, at least in theory, a place for
> sacrificers who decide to forego substitutes or who refuse to wait until
> they die by natural causes. Sangam cult shows a custom, VADAKIRUNDU UYIR
> NEETHAL. Moreover, Hellenistic and Roman westerners had no difficulty
> believing that Indians had the custom of incineration themselves; draws
> attention to Zarmarus or Zarmanochegas, who was a member of the
> Indian embassy to Augustus at the end of the first century BCE
> {Zarmanochegas, also known as Zarmanochegas or Zarmanochegas, is a figure
> mentioned in ancient Greco-Roman accounts. Here are some details about
> Zarmanochegas is described as an Indian gymnosophist or ascetic who lived
> during the time of Alexander the Great's conquests in the 4th century BCE.
> The term "gymnosophist" (MAY BE AGHORI) refers to a naked philosopher,
> likely indicating that Zarmanochegas belonged to a sect of Indian ascetics
> known for their renunciation of worldly possessions and simple way of life.
> Zarmanochegas is said to have lived in a hermitage or cave, where he
> pursued a life of asceticism and contemplation. Like Kalanos, another
> Indian ascetic mentioned in historical accounts, Zarmanochegas is said to
> have chosen to end his life through self-immolation rather than face the
> infirmities of old age.} and committed suicide by fire in Athens, and to
> the Greek Cynic philosopher Peregrinus who imitated the Indian custom by
> ascending a pyre at Olympia in 167 CE.
>
> There is, furthermore, a Vedic sacrifice called Śunaskarṇa,{ The
> Sunaskarna sacrifice, also known as Sunaskara or Sunahsepa, is a
> significant ritual mentioned in Hindu scriptures, particularly in the Rigveda
> and some Brahmana texts. It revolves around the story of a young boy named
> Sunahsepa and his sacrifice. Here are the key points about the Sunaskarna
> sacrifice: The story of Sunahsepa is found in the Aitareya Brahmana and
> other Vedic texts. According to the legend, Sunahsepa was the son of a
> sage named Ajigarta. Due to circumstances, Ajigarta sold Sunahsepa to a
> king named Harishchandra to be sacrificed. Sunahsepa willingly agreed to
> be the sacrificial victim to save his family from poverty. Sunahsepa's
> sacrifice is a tale of selflessness, devotion, and sacrifice. He
> underwent various trials and tribulations but ultimately emerged
> victorious, and his life was spared through divine intervention. His
> story is often cited as an example of devotion and the triumph of
> righteousness over adversity. The Sunaskarna sacrifice has ritual
> implications in Hindu tradition. It symbolizes the concept of sacrifice and
> the importance of upholding one's dharma (duty) even in the face of
> challenges. The story of Sunahsepa is often recounted in the context of
> Vedic sacrifices and serves as a moral and spiritual lesson.The Sunaskarna
> sacrifice is significant both historically and symbolically. It reflects
> ancient Vedic beliefs and practices surrounding sacrifice, devotion, and
> ethical conduct. The story of Sunahsepa continues to be revered in Hindu
> tradition as a timeless example of courage, selflessness, and divine
> grace. in which the sacrificer takes his own life by throwing himself
> into the fire.} This, at any rate, is the opinion of Śabara, the author
> of the classical commentary (Mīmāṃsābhāṣya) of Mīmāṃsā, the Brahmanical
> school of thought {which is translated by Gangadhara Jha} that remained
> close to the Vedic scriptures. According to Śabara, the Śunaskarṇa
> sacrifice is prescribed by the injunction: “Desiring one’s own death one
> should perform this sacrifice, if he wishes that he should reach the
> Heavenly Region without any disease” (maraṇakāmo hy etena yajeta, yaḥ
> kāmayetānāmayaḥ svargaṃ lokam iyām iti). The crucial part of this
> sacrifice—the self-immolation of the sacrificer—is, again according to
> Śabara, also prescribed by an injunction: “Then again, there is the text—
> ‘When the Ārbhava has begun, the Sacrificer, having covered the Uḍumbara
> post (sthambam) with a borderless piece of cloth, says—O Brāhmaṇas,
> please complete this Sacrifice for me,—and enters the Fire’ ” (api cedam
> āmnāyate, ārbhave prastūyamāna audumbarīṃ parito ‘daśena vāsasā pariveṣṭya
> brāhmaṇāḥ parisamāpayata me yajñam iti saṃpreṣyāgniṃ viśatīti).Hence
> Brahmin community sacrificed even its life for the welfare of other varnas
> as evident from Rigvedam down the lane to Grhya sutras. Gangadhar Jha and
> so many British authors had written about it all, where brahmin
> dislocations and the sacrifices are witnessed; a small quantum for the
> welfare of the 95% of the world population or maybe 99% . K RAJARAM
> IRS 28524 29524 TO BE CONTD.
>
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