PARALLEL EDUCATION VIDYA IN SANATANA
IF WE SAY TAKE THE PATTERN OF EDUCATION OF 7000 BCE WILL ANY ONE
INCLUDING THE MEMEBERS WILL ACCEPT? Vidyā (विद्या, “gnosis”) or Jnana
(doctrine) refers to one of the four categories of the subject-matter of
the Āgamas, according to *Alexis Sanderson in his 2006 article on the
Lākulas (before presenting the vratas in the ninth chapter of the caryā
pāda of the Matanga Parameswara).*—The Śaivas have conventionally divided
the means of liberation taught in the Āgamas, that is to say their subject
matter, into the four categories, ritual (kriya), doctrine or gnosis
(jnana, Vidyā), meditation (yoga), and ascetic observance and other rules
governing the conduct of the various classes and kinds of initiate (caryā).
BAGAVAD GITA TEACHES ONLY THAT; BUT EVEN AMONG THE 3% COMMUNITY THIS
CONCEPT FLUTTERS WITHOUT RECOGNITION AS WE HAVE NOT DEVICED OUR STANDARD
EDUCATION; AND WE CANNOT DO IT BECAUSE OF POLITICS; AND POLITICS WAS BASED
ON CASTE, @JATI INVENTED BY THE VARIANTS.
WHAT IS KNOWLEDGE? The term ‘knowledge,’ ‘vidyā,’ stands for
*that* by means of which all things are known; i.e., the reading of the
text as well as the grasping of the meaning. *The meaning is that he who
does not bring any benefit* should not be taught the text of the Veda, nor
should the explanation of the meaning of Vedic texts be expounded to him.
(see the Manubhāṣya, II.112) .So unless there is a response proper,
criticism or appreciation, condemnation and concentration, among the public
,only can advance towards the accurate spectrum of vidya the education; but
99.99% are silent spectators, in spite of Nasthikas making fun of them or ,
Āstika punching them, cannot awaken the dead souls, so, aspirations for new
change, would fail absolutely. Vidyā (विद्या, “valid knowledge ”) refers to
one of two types of Buddhi (cognition) according to Praśasta-pāda in the
Vaiśeṣika-darśanam with Praśasta-pāda-bhāṣya.—According to Praśasta-pāda,
buddhi is divided into two kinds:—vidyā (valid knowledge) and avidyā
(invalid knowledge). Valid knowledge has four kinds–perception, inference,
recollection and supernormal occult perception. Invalid knowledge has also
four kinds–doubt, illusion, indefinite knowledge and dream. Vidyā
(विद्या) refers
to the “degree of education” (of a citizen—which forms a defining
characteristic of social gatherings).—Accordingly [while describing the
technicalities of a goṣṭhī—social gatherings]: “When men of the same age,
disposition and talents, fond of the same diversions and with the same
degree of education (Vidyā), [vā samāna Vidyā buddhi śīla vittavayasāṃ saha]
sit together in company with public women, or in an assembly of citizens,
or at the abode of one among themselves, and engage in agreeable discourse
with each other, such is called a Sitting in company or a social gathering.
[...]”.
Vidyā (विद्या).—[*vid-kyap*] 1) Knowledge, learning, lore,
science; (*tāṃ*) विद्याम भ्यसनेनेव प्रसादयि तुमर्हसि (*vidyām abhyasaneneva
prasādayi tumarhasi*) R.1.88; विद्या नाम नरस्य रूपमधिकं प्रच्छन्नगुप्तं धनम्
(*vidyā nāma narasya rūpa madhikaṃ pracchanna guptaṃ dhanam*) &c.
Bhartṛhari 2.2.
(According to some *Vidyās* are four :-*ānvīkṣikī trayī vārtā daṇḍanītiśca
śīśvatī* Kāmandaka); चतसृष्वपि ते विवेकिनी नृप विद्यासु निरूढिमागता
(*catasṛṣvapi
te vivekinī nṛpa vidyāsu nirūḍhimāgatā*) Kirātārjunīya 2.6; to these four
Manu adds a fifth आत्मविद्या (*ātmavidyā*); त्रैविद्येभ्यस्त्रयीं विद्यां
दण्डनीतिं च शाश्वतीम् । आन्वीक्षिकीं चात्मविद्यां वार्तारम्भांश्च
लोकतः (*traividye
bhyastrayīṃ vidyāṃ daṇḍanītiṃ ca śāśvatīm | ānvīkṣikīṃ cātma vidyāṃ
vārtārambhāṃ śca lokataḥ*) || Manusmṛti 7.43. But the usual number of
*Vidyās* is stated to be fourteen, *i. e.* the four *Vedas*, the six *Aṅgas,
Dharma, Mimāṃsā, Tarka* or *Nyāya* and the *Purāṇas;* see चतुर्दशविद्या (
*caturdaśavidyā*) under चतुर् (*catur*); and N.1.4. In N.1.5 the number is
spoken of as being eighteen by including Medicine, Military Art, Music and
Polity; अगाहताष्टादशतां जिगीषया (*agāhatāṣ ṭādaśatāṃ jigīṣayā*).)2) Right
knowledge, spiritual knowledge; विद्याकल्पेन मरुता मेघानां भूयसामपि
(*vidyākalpena
marutā meghānāṃ bhūyasāmapi*) (*kvāpi pravilayaḥ kṛtaḥ*) Uttararāmacarita
6.6; cf. अविद्या (*avidyā*). Vidya primarily means "correct knowledge" in
any field of science, learning, philosophy, or any factual knowledge that
cannot be disputed or refuted.
The Upanishads teach that the knowledge of difference is avidyā or
ignorance, and the knowledge of identity is true knowledge or vidyā or
valid knowledge, which leads to life eternal. For the Cārvākas, perception
is the only means of valid knowledge (pramana). Vadi Deva Suri of the Jaina
school defines valid knowledge as determinate cognition which apprehends
itself and an object and which is capable of prompting activity which
attains a desirable object or rejects an undesirable object; the result of
valid knowledge is cessation of ignorance. Vaisheshikas recognized four
kinds of valid knowledge – Perception, Inference, Recollection and
Intuition. The Mimamsa schools introduced the concept of intrinsic validity
of knowledge (svatahpramanya) and extrinsic validity of knowledge
(parastah-apramana) but agreed that the validity of knowledge cannot be
determined by the knowledge of any special excellence in its cause or the
knowledge of its harmony with the real nature of its object or the
knowledge of a fruitful action. Sankara accepted perception, inference,
scriptural testimony, comparison, presumption and non-apprehension as the
six sources of knowledge and concluded that the knowledge which corresponds
with the real nature of its object is valid. The Atman is the reality in
the empirical self as the ever-present foundational subject-objectless
universal consciousness which sustains the empirical self.
The Sanskrit word, Vidya, is seen prominently in Vedas and all
texts pertaining to Indian philosophy. It means science, learning,
knowledge and scholarship. The root word is Vid which means - to reason
upon, knower, finding, knowing, acquiring or understanding. Vidya is not
mere intellectual knowledge, for the Vedas demand understanding. In
Hinduism education is an important means to achieve the four aims of human
life, namely dharma (virtue), artha (wealth), kama (pleasure) and moksha
(liberation). Also, it is vital to the preservation and propagation of
Dharma. Vidya or education is the means by which an individual can gain
right knowledge, control his desires and learn to perform his obligatory
duties with a sense of detachment and devotion to God, so that he can
overcome egoism, attachment and delusion and achieve liberation.
In Hindu tradition, an illiterate person is considered to be
equal to an animal (pasu),*** because without education he will not be able
to rise above his physical self. Hence the belief that a person who is
initiated into education is twice born, first time physically and second
time spiritually. Central to the traditional educational system of Hinduism
is the concept of guru or teacher as a remover of darkness. A teacher is a
god in human form. The Upanishads describe two types of knowledge: the
lower knowledge of the rituals, sacrifices, obligatory duties, occupational
knowledge and the like, and the higher knowledge of the Self (Atman) and
the Supreme Self. The former is often equated with ignorance (avidya) and
the latter with true knowledge (vidya). The Upanishads also state that both
types of knowledge are important. From the lower knowledge comes the
discipline and the ability to practice the higher and realize the highest.
The glory of Vidya (a term which encompasses both spiritual and secular
education) is extolled in many places in the Vedas. There is an interesting
episode in Yajur veda to illustrate that knowledge is really an ocean. A
great rishi Bharadvaaja with the power of his tapas (austerities and deep
meditation) was able to learn from Lord Indra knowledge in different fields
that made him swell with pride and ego. His fellow rishis still felt that
he had not learnt enough. Unconvinced by their opinion, Rishi Bharadvaaja
again performed austerities to invoke the presence of Lord Indra again,
narrated to him all that he learnt and asked him to provide a verdict on
the opinion of other rishis. Indra then took a handful of sand from the
earth and requested the rishi to state the number of grains in them. The
rishi was at his wits end to come up with a figure for the number of
grains. Lord Indra then pointed to the rishi to several hills in sight and
said that what he has learnt is just equal to the handful of sand. Just
like the handful of sand is miniscule compared to the several hills, so is
the knowledge he has acquired. This is one of the Artha Vada (equivalent to
a moral lesson) in Yajur Veda. Bhartṛhari is a Sanskrit writer / Poet, of
5th century CE, to whom are normally ascribed two influential Sanskrit texts:
a) Poet Birthuhari explains Vidya as follows:
केयूराणि न भूषयन्ति पुरुषं हारा न चन्द्रोज्ज्वला
न स्नानं न विलेपनं न कुसुमं नालङ्कृता मूर्धजाः ।
वाण्येका समलङ्करोति पुरुषं या संस्कृता धार्यते
क्षीयन्ते खलु भूषणानि सततं वाग्भूषणं भूषणम् ॥
Armlets, garlands shining like moon, bathing, perfume, fragrant flowers on
the hair – these do not adorn a man. It is good education that gives the
man an identity. All these ornaments are of decaying nature, while the
power of good speech is the eternal ornament.
Vidyā nāma narasya rūpamadhikaṃ pracchannaguptaṃ dhanaṃ
Vidyā bhogakarī yaśassukhakarī vidyā gurūṇāṃ guruḥ |
Vidyā bandhujano videśagamane vidyā parā devatā
Vidyā rājasu pūjitā na tu dhanaṃ vidyāvihīnaḥ paśuḥ ||***
Education enhances a man’s name and appearance. It gives inexhaustible
qualities and wealth. It gives indestructible fame and comfort. It is the
guide of the guides. It enjoys hospitality in far flung lands just like we
get from near and dear ones. It is the supreme deity. It gets adoration
from kings. Not so with wealth. Hence a man without education is looked
upon as an animal. ***
*As far as Rig Veda is concerned vidya (intelligence or knowledge) is
synonymous with Veda*. The Upanayana ceremony, where the word literally
means (taking one near – a teacher for learning Vedas) is performed for the
truths in the veda getting ingrained in thoughts and deeds of the student
for whom upanayana is performed, whenever he starts learning it. Therefore,
the most important ritual in this ceremony is for manifestation of this
divine knowledge.
* In the Rig Veda they call this manifestation of divine knowledge as
Medha Vilasam.* Veda contains divine knowledge that has come down to us
directly from God. One part of Veda teaches us about moral codes of conduct
(dharma shastras) and the rituals to be performed to acquire a state of
mind that will enable us to lead a life according to the inunctions in
dharma. Shastras. The other part of the Vedas (called Vedanta) is
concerned purely with Gnana (knowledge of highest/ultimate truth).
Ordinarily knowledge and understanding comes from experience but the
knowledge contained in Vedanta teaches us knowledge which cannot be gained
from sensory experiences. Since Vedas talk about the origin and destination
of all souls in the universe, they enjoy the status of being called a
revealed text not composed by any human (Apaurusheya). In fact, one can
verily say that the basis of all branches of knowledge such as Science,
Mathematics and Medicine is enunciated in the Vedas. Knowledge contained in
the Vedas is so vast that asking whether the knowledge of a particular
topic is contained in the Vedas is equivalent to asking a person with
million dollars whether he/she is in possession of 100 dollars.
In fact, Srimad Bhagavatam, one of the great puranas says that
only after learning the truths from the Vedas, Lord Brahma himself was able
to create the world. It says “tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye”. The message
from this is that vidya is essential from the creator to ordinary persons
like us.. The secular knowledge in several fields are contained in the body
of knowledge called upa vedas (adjunct texts to vedas). In Ramayana, to
show the level of knowledge that existed at that time, Bharata the brother
of Lord Rama, is quoted as saying the following from the vedas- the problem
of parched earth can be addressed by bringing water, the problem of hot
open spaces can be addressed by planting trees etc. Thus, there is no
substitute for vedic knowledge. The science of phonetics in the vedas deals
with the effect of proper pronunciation. A treatise called Rik Vidhaanam
in Rig Veda shows the power of proper pronunciation of different mantras to
produce the desired effects*. There is also evidence that some of the
chants in the veda can produce benign effects on entire humanity. Again, in
Rig Veda there is a vedic chant called Aikamathya Sooktham. It has been
scientifically proven that some of the sounds occurring in the words (such
as “Sam”) and verses of this Sooktham have been found to produce beneficial
vibrations which can bring about a state of peace among the people exposed
to it. T hus, we see that the knowledge of the vedas can bring about
benefit to all aspects of life of a human being.*
The Aikyamatya Suktam (Hymn of Unity) is a powerful Vedic prayer
from the Rigveda (Mandala 10, Suktam 191). Containing four sacred verses,
it seeks to align human thoughts, resolve conflicts, and establish
collective harmony, shared purpose, and mutual understanding among
individuals, families, and communities.
The Suktam is dedicated to the Samjnana Devata (Deity of Harmony).
(ऋग्वेदे अन्तिमं सूक्तं)
(ṛgvēdē antimaṃ sūktaṃ)
ॐ संस॒मिद्युवसे वृष॒न्नग्ने॒ विश्वा᳚न्य॒र्य आ ।
इ॒लस्प॒दे समि॑ध्यसे॒ स नो॒ वसू॒न्याभर ॥
ōṃ saṃsa̠midyuvasē vṛṣa̠nnagnē̠ viśvā̎nya̠rya ā ।
i̠ḻaspa̠dē sami̍dhyasē̠ sa nō̠ vasū̠nyābhara ॥
सङ्ग॑च्छध्वं॒ संवँदध्वं॒ सं-वोँ॒ मनां᳚सि जानताम् ।
दे॒वा भा॒गं-यँथा॒ पूर्वे᳚ सञ्जाना॒ना उ॒पासते ॥
saṅga̍chChadhva̠ṃ saṃvadadhva̠ṃ saṃ vō̠ manā̎msi jānatām ।
dē̠vā bhā̠gaṃ yathā̠ pūrvē̎ sañjānā̠nā u̠pāsatē ॥
स॒मा॒नो मन्त्र॒-स्समिति-स्समा॒नी समा॒न-म्मन॑स्स॒ह चि॒त्तमे᳚षाम् ।
स॒मा॒न-म्मन्त्रम॒भिम᳚न्त्रये व-स्समा॒नेन वो ह॒विषा᳚ जुहोमि ॥
sa̠mā̠nō mantra̠-ssamiti-ssamā̠nī samā̠na-mmana̍ssa̠ha chi̠ttamē̎ṣām ।
sa̠mā̠na-mmantrama̠bhima̎mtrayē va-ssamā̠nēna vō ha̠viṣā̎ juhōmi ॥
स॒मा॒नी व॒ आकू᳚ति-स्समा॒ना हृदयानि वः ।
स॒मा॒नम॑स्तु वो॒ मनो॒ यथा᳚ व॒-स्सुस॒हासति ॥
sa̠mā̠nī va̠ ākū̎ti-ssamā̠nā hṛdayāni vaḥ ।
sa̠mā̠nama̍stu vō̠ manō̠ yathā̎ va̠-ssusa̠hāsati ॥
ॐ शान्ति॒-श्शन्ति॒-श्शान्तिः॑ ॥
ōṃ śānti̠-śśanti̠-śśānti̍ḥ ॥
Verse 1: Meaning: Come together, speak in harmony, and let your minds be
of one accord. Just as the ancient deities shared their portions of the
offering with mutual consent, act with shared understanding.
Verse 2: Meaning: May your counsel be common, your assembly united, and
your minds be in harmony. I offer this common prayer and oblation so that
you may act with a unified consciousness.
Verse 3: Meaning: United be your intentions, and one be your hearts. May
your minds be in complete agreement, so that you may live together in happy
harmony.
Parallel education is nothing but revival and going back in History but
where SWARNA secretary is transferred and kumara guruparan inducted,
because DMK,VCK and communists threatened the brahmin minister and the
secretary is going up, in front of our eyes, parallel education is remote
without control. K RAJARAM IRS 24526
On Sun, 24 May 2026 at 05:57, Markendeya Yeddanapudi <
[email protected]> wrote:
> The Alternative and Parallel Education
>
>
>
> --
> *Mar*Your piece has strong philosophical energy and a clear moral
> urgency. It combines ecological thought, critiques of mechanistic science,
> spiritual intuition, and educational reform into a single vision. The
> central insight—that education should reconnect humans with living nature
> rather than reduce life to economic utility—is powerful.
>
> What follows is:
>
> 1.
>
> An edited and improved version that preserves your style and
> intentions while improving clarity, flow, grammar, and conceptual
> precision.
> 2.
>
> My views on the strengths and limits of the argument.
> 3.
>
> Thinkers from Africa, the Amazon Basin, the Himalayas, and desert
> cultures whose ideas resonate with aspects of your vision.
>
> ------------------------------
> Edited and Improved VersionThe Alternative and Parallel Education
>
> *By YM Sarma (edited version)*
>
> With our eyes we can perceive only a minute fraction of reality—perhaps
> not even 0.0035% of the totality. Even what we do see is only an
> approximation: stable-looking three-dimensional forms that conceal immense
> inner processes.
>
> Suppose two chairs stand before you. If human vision could penetrate
> deeper—seeing atoms, particles, molecular formations, transformations,
> dissolutions, and the continuous emergence and disappearance of matter—then
> the chairs themselves would vanish as fixed objects. What would remain
> visible would be only processes: movements, interactions, energies, and
> transitions.
>
> In such a vision, one would not even find oneself as a separate and stable
> entity. One would experience oneself as participating in the same vast
> unfolding processes. Nature would no longer appear as a collection of
> isolated subjects and objects governed by fixed predicates. Instead,
> existence would reveal itself as one continuous field of becoming, where
> processes overlap, transform, and interpenetrate.
>
> In this participation, understanding would not arise merely from
> connecting static paradigms, because paradigms themselves are continuously
> changing. Understanding would become a living experience of
> discovery—moments of revelation from nature that transform consciousness at
> its roots.
>
> In comparison, many inventions celebrated by mechanical civilization may
> appear not as genuine discoveries, but as adulterations of the natural
> order.
>
> An education rooted in direct participation with nature would constantly
> illuminate life with discovery, revelation, and awakening. Every aspect of
> nature would become vital. Nature itself would become sacred—not as dogma,
> but as lived experience. In free nature, every organism participates in a
> flow of being that may be called theistic, spiritual, or simply profound.
>
> Modern civilization increasingly repudiates humanity’s limbhood within
> nature—our belonging to the anatomy of the Earth itself. Instead, we demand
> exclusively Cartesian and mechanical explanations supported by mathematical
> proofs, while ignoring the deeper reality that nature is in continuous
> ferment.
>
> At every level—from the nano-scale onward—existence is an unending process
> of transformation. These transformations may even be understood as
> processes of consciousness. Mathematical equations and formulae can capture
> only temporary patterns within this flow; they are snapshots, not the whole
> reality.
>
> Education must therefore become participation in living and changing
> nature.
>
> The great contemporary theories of physics—String Theories, M-Theory, Loop
> Theories, and other attempts toward a Theory of Everything—should not
> remain imprisoned within purely mechanical paradigms. They should move
> toward understanding the universe as dynamic processes of consciousness
> rather than merely extending Cartesian frameworks.
>
> The taboo against consciousness in modern science—the refusal to treat
> consciousness as fundamental—must end.
>
> Every university should establish a “Free Nature Park”: a protected region
> left untouched by commercial and technological manipulation. Such spaces
> may partially atone for the continuing destruction of nature caused by
> economies that reduce education to training for occupations within systems
> of exploitation.
>
> Within these Free Nature Parks, an alternative and parallel education can
> emerge—an education based on freedom for nature itself. There, students may
> rediscover their participation within the living Earth and free education
> from economic subjugation.
>
> Such education would not merely prepare human beings for jobs. It would
> prepare them for existence.
> ------------------------------
> My Views
>
> Your essay belongs to a long and important tradition that critiques
> mechanistic civilization and calls for a deeper ecological consciousness.
> It has genuine philosophical depth. Several parts are especially compelling:
> Strengths
>
> -
>
> The idea of “process” rather than fixed objects strongly echoes modern
> physics, ecology, and process philosophy.
> -
>
> Your criticism of education becoming merely economic training is
> highly relevant today.
> -
>
> The phrase “limbhood of nature” is original and memorable. It
> expresses interdependence beautifully.
> -
>
> The proposal for “Free Nature Parks” attached to universities is
> practical and visionary at the same time.
> -
>
> The insistence that discovery should involve wonder, transformation,
> and participation—not merely technical manipulation—is philosophically
> rich.
>
> Where the Argument Could Be Stronger
>
> At some points, the essay moves too quickly from scientific observations
> to metaphysical conclusions.
>
> For example:
>
> -
>
> Quantum uncertainty or particle flux does not automatically prove that
> all reality is consciousness.
> -
>
> Mathematics may describe temporary states, but many equations remain
> remarkably stable and predictive across time.
> -
>
> Mechanical science, despite its limitations, has also enabled
> medicine, communication, and understanding of ecosystems.
>
> So the strongest version of your argument may not be:
>
> “Mechanical science is false.”
>
> but rather:
>
> “Mechanical science is incomplete when isolated from lived experience,
> consciousness, ecology, ethics, and participation in nature.”
>
> That formulation would make your philosophy more persuasive to scientists
> and philosophers alike.
>
> You are closest, philosophically, to:
>
> -
>
> process philosophy,
> -
>
> ecological phenomenology,
> -
>
> deep ecology,
> -
>
> indigenous cosmologies,
> -
>
> and critiques of industrial modernity.
>
> ------------------------------
> Thinkers Related to Your VisionAfricaJohn Mbiti
>
> Known for the idea:
>
> “I am because we are.”
>
> He emphasized interconnected existence and African communal ontology.
> Mogobe Ramose
>
> Developed the philosophy of Ubuntu as relational being rather than
> isolated individuality.
> Cheikh Anta Diop
>
> Argued for recovering holistic African civilizational knowledge suppressed
> by colonial modernity.
> Wangari Maathai
>
> Linked ecology, dignity, spirituality, and education through the Green
> Belt Movement.
> ------------------------------
> Amazon Basin and Indigenous AmericasDavi Kopenawa
>
> His work describes forests, spirits, consciousness, and ecological
> destruction from an indigenous cosmological perspective.
> The Falling Sky
>
> A major text resonating strongly with your critique of industrial
> civilization.
> Ailton Krenak
>
> Critiques modern civilization’s separation from Earth and argues for a
> living relationship with nature.
> Eduardo Viveiros de Castro
>
> Developed “Amerindian perspectivism,” where humans and nonhumans
> participate in overlapping worlds of consciousness.
> ------------------------------
> Himalayas / India / TibetRabindranath Tagore
>
> Created an educational philosophy rooted in nature, creativity, and
> freedom at Santiniketan.
> Jiddu Krishnamurti
>
> Criticized mechanical education and stressed direct perception without
> conditioned paradigms.
> Padmasambhava
>
> Represented a view of reality as dynamic awareness rather than fixed
> substance.
> Vandana Shiva
>
> Critiques industrial science and advocates ecological knowledge systems.
> Raimon Panikkar
>
> Explored cosmotheandric unity: cosmos, humanity, and divinity as
> inseparable.
> ------------------------------
> Desert Thinkers and TraditionsIbn Arabi
>
> Saw reality as a continuous unfolding of divine consciousness.
> Thomas Merton
>
> His desert contemplative writings critique technological civilization and
> advocate spiritual ecology.
> T.E. Lawrence
>
> Reflected on how deserts dissolve rigid individuality and mechanical
> civilization.
> Paul Shepard
>
> Argued that modern humans suffer from developmental alienation from wild
> nature.
> Ibrahim al-Koni
>
> Desert-centered philosophical writings on nature, spirit, silence, and
> civilization.
> ------------------------------
>
> Your essay could evolve into something larger:
>
> -
>
> a manifesto for ecological education,
> -
>
> a philosophy of consciousness,
> -
>
> or a critique of Cartesian civilization.
>
> Its strongest contribution is not anti-science rhetoric, but the
> insistence that education without wonder, participation, ecological
> belonging, and inner transformation becomes spiritually empty.
>
> --
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