Ad the two latest post; these solutions are very close to the alternative permalink button suggested here: https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/QOzs3CVtosU/m/QZhVupmUBAAJ creating a permalink field with sluggified title + timestamp (always unique within a wiki), and keeping old versions so that links will continue to work
Best, Anders tirsdag 11. mai 2021 kl. 05:15:34 UTC+2 skrev cj.v...@gmail.com: > The beauty of your link is that it is obvious what the link is for. That > really is a great thing. Which I know I would eventually break because I > am always slightly tweaking everything towards titles/names/descriptions > that better fit changing scope/circumstances/you-name-it. > > With a wee number, I'll never monkey around with it.. Which is the safety > net I'm looking for: something stable that I know I will never tweak, > tweaking being my nature when it comes to text. I'm just as likely to > change a description (scope of tiddler may have changed), or improved the > wording or something. > > I'm pretty stuck in a method similar to the Oracle Sequence Numbers I'm > familiar with. I've always been more comfortable with identifiers never > based on real-world values. > > > > On Monday, May 10, 2021 at 11:17:22 PM UTC-3 TW Tones wrote: > >> Try this; >> >> https://tiddlywiki.com/#:[description[Browser extension for Firefox]] >> >> If you could rename and save this tiddler, it will still work until you >> modify the description or clone the tiddler. >> >> Eureka! >> >> I think I have finally come up with a simple, total, robust solution to >> permalinks, serial number, UID and GUID's not to put it in words and a >> plugin. >> >> I can write the specification if anyone wants to help, otherwise it will >> take a little longer >> >> Regards >> Tones >> >> On Monday, 10 May 2021 at 03:07:28 UTC+10 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> Pff, no worries. It is very easy to call things by various "names", and >>> for the "intent" of words to match exactly all of one's thoughts related to >>> the words, while meaning something entirely different to somebody else. >>> >>> So context gets jumbled easily. >>> >>> Imagine you place in all sorts of places all over the web a URL to a >>> specific tiddler in one TiddlyWiki instance. >>> >>> So many things can happen to break all of those links. You might move >>> the TiddlyWiki to a completely different host. You might actually rename >>> the TiddlyWiki itself. >>> >>> So all kinds of worse problems than having the same URL suddenly pop >>> open a few different unrelated tiddlers along with the intended one. That >>> is barely a blip in the scheme of things. >>> >>> Easy enough to have some Tiddler in each TiddlyWiki that let's you know >>> when you've imported some Tiddler that now has you with duplicate UID's. >>> At which point, go to the imported tiddler and delete its UID, giving it a >>> new one only if you really need to. >>> >>> If your workflow has you importing tiddlers incessantly between your >>> TiddlyWikis, then you need to include in your workflow something that helps >>> you with weeding your garden. >>> >>> Or prepare to have a more complicated system for uniquely identifying >>> your tiddlers and having longer and more complicated URL's. >>> >>> I'm pretty sure somebody will come up with something much more perfect >>> than what I've come up with, but there will be costs / trade-offs. >>> >>> Only you know what kind of trade-offs you can live with. (You won't >>> know the trade-offs without trying the various possibilities.) >>> >>> For me, this UID-permalink thing (or whatever I finally call it), is the >>> good enough lean/mean/simple/robust/no-break-anything-else solution for >>> me. To each his/her own. >>> >>> On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 1:48:33 PM UTC-3 ludwa6 wrote: >>> >>>> Sorry Charlie for my sloppy wording: by "named-alike," what i meant was >>>> two tiddlers having the same UID-permalink. As for titles, i am very >>>> comfortable with the conflict avoidance measures built into the TW5 import >>>> process. >>>> >>>> In any case, i am reassured by your answer(s- this last and the one >>>> above) that the risk involved in starting to use this thing -and then only >>>> for its intended purpose, as you say- is quite small. The biggest risk i >>>> see is the sort of confusion that might arise if i send somebody a link to >>>> something, and what they get instead is a page with an extra tiddler (or >>>> few -see below) that would tend to throw into question the relevance of >>>> that link that the web user trusted enough to follow -especially if the >>>> unintended tiddler(s) appear larger and/or louder, maybe higher on the >>>> page >>>> (? something i'll only learn thru experience; am comfortable w/ that). >>>> >>>> Still: i do suspect that i'm gonna somehow wind up with multiple >>>> tiddlers having the same number in that UID field, and that before very >>>> long i will wind up publishing some one(s) of those. I say this because >>>> of >>>> two fundamental dynamics in my workflow: >>>> >>>> 1. I've got a TiddlyDesktop full of different TW instances that are >>>> cross-pollinating tiddlers with such careless abandon as to cause me >>>> some >>>> concern; and >>>> 2. I'm a huge believer in DRY (Don't Repeat Yourself), so once i've >>>> written something somewhere that i want to share, i would much rather >>>> share >>>> a link to it than write it again. >>>> >>>> Can't say as (2) is much of a problem yet, because to this point i've >>>> got just a few small TW instances online -all of them tests, essentially, >>>> as i am still figuring out the best way to do this- but i do expect to be >>>> publishing & sharing real content in the very near future, at an >>>> ever-increasing rate of flow. For all that, i think it safe to say: we'll >>>> cross that bridge when we come to it. >>>> On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 5:02:33 PM UTC+1 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> G'day Walt, >>>>> >>>>> I did not clue into your statement: "So, i have to ask: in case of >>>>> UID conflict: is what would happen indeed as innocuous a condition as >>>>> what >>>>> you describe, i.e.: the two named-alike tiddlers would both display to >>>>> the >>>>> WWW browser who comes in on that link? No other problem you can forsee >>>>> arising out of that?" >>>>> >>>>> "Named-alike" tiddlers. As in tiddlers with same title. When >>>>> dragging "Tiddler A" from one TiddlyWiki to another, you really have to >>>>> pay >>>>> attention to the messages in the import mechanism. It says when you are >>>>> about to overwrite an existing tiddler. >>>>> >>>>> What you talk about here is not a problem UID-permalinks solve. That >>>>> is a much greater problem than the simple thing solved by UID-permalinks. >>>>> >>>>> To reiterate: UID-permalink only keeps URL's to a specific tiddler from >>>>> totally breaking when tiddlers get renamed. >>>>> >>>>> Use UID-permalinks to keep URL's from breaking. This other problem >>>>> (uniqueness of tiddlers to prevent destruction of tiddlers upon import of >>>>> tiddlers from some other TiddlyWiki) is more inline, I think, with what >>>>> @PMario is looking into, which I personally think will involve a mess, >>>>> attempting to give every tiddler a cross-TiddlyWiki unique ID akin to IP >>>>> addresses or hardware-MAC-addresses >>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_address>. Very bleurk and very >>>>> uninteresting to me. >>>>> >>>>> Other than something akin to IP/MAC addresses, you could make it such >>>>> that any TiddlyWiki can only be created from one centralized spot which >>>>> guarantees assigning every TiddlyWiki in existence a unique TiddlyWiki ID >>>>> then gets attached to every Tiddler in that TiddlyWiki. Infinity-bleurk. >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 11:26:13 AM UTC-3 ludwa6 wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I understand, Charlie, how you are only trying to solve the problem >>>>>> w/in scope of a single wiki -and if that were a truly closed system, >>>>>> then >>>>>> indeed your solution solves the problem, if i'm understanding it >>>>>> correctly. >>>>>> >>>>>> However: i do see how easily tiddlers with the same ID could wind up >>>>>> in the same wiki in my case, where i've got a mitt-full of different >>>>>> editions that i am drag&dropping tiddlers across without due care, i >>>>>> suppose (mainly owing to that phenomenon Dave Gifford has described so >>>>>> well >>>>>> in his take on the "What is #TiddlyWiki" >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/jIhG30rx1PU/m/153I2Xl7BQAJ> >>>>>> question. See: it's Silly-Putty, as i said :-). >>>>>> >>>>>> So, i have to ask: in case of UID conflict: is what would happen >>>>>> indeed as innocuous a condition as what you describe, i.e.: the two >>>>>> named-alike tiddlers would both display to the WWW browser who comes in >>>>>> on >>>>>> that link? No other problem you can forsee arising out of that? >>>>>> >>>>>> I do still think that the create date/time is sufficiently granular >>>>>> as to make the risk of similarly-coded tiddlers as near-zero as you >>>>>> could >>>>>> want, especially if combined with and/or hashed by some other factor. I >>>>>> gather that this doesn't work for those pesky "$:/" tiddlers -but that's >>>>>> fine, since we don't want it to (and there's no way such a thing could >>>>>> happen by accident, right?) >>>>>> >>>>>> /walt >>>>>> On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 2:59:14 PM UTC+1 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> It will always be unique within one TiddlyWiki. Same as "Sequence >>>>>>> numbers" in an Oracle Database. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The UID isn't really a counter. It gets the the largest value of >>>>>>> UID that exists among the tiddlers, then gives "this tiddler" the >>>>>>> greatest >>>>>>> value + 1. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So not a counter in the sense of a stored value in some field. >>>>>>> Maybe, for performance, I'll have to set things up that way someday, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> not for now. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That said, this is only about unique and stable permalinks for >>>>>>> Tiddlers in a TiddlyWiki, not about unique identification of tiddlers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you wanted to, you could create a bunch of tiddlers, and >>>>>>> copy-paste the UID's among a bunch of them so that a UID permalink >>>>>>> actually >>>>>>> opens a group of related tiddlers, if that's something someone wanted. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To reiterate: The UID's are not about unique identifiers for >>>>>>> tiddlers. That's a different problem, but one that I don't think needs >>>>>>> solving. Well, until it ever bites me in the caboose. It hasn't yet, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> my caboose is polished and ready for the bite at any time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That aside ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Say we both have TiddlyWiki's that use this UID thing I've developed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And say I import one of your tiddlers into my TiddlyWiki, and I now >>>>>>> have two tiddlers that have UID values of 55. One of mine, and the one >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> imported from your TiddlyWiki. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Who cares? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Every URL link out in the wild that references my TiddlyWiki with >>>>>>> UID 55 will now open with my tiddler and your tiddler. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> However, my original intent for the UID permalink is not borked. We >>>>>>> can still easily get to my tiddler. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If your tiddler (UID=55) gets to be a real pain, then I'll strip the >>>>>>> UID off of your tiddler that is in my TiddlyWiki. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyway, all of that said, this UID-permalink thing does what it is >>>>>>> supposed to do in the problem scope I'm thinking, but is in no means >>>>>>> meant >>>>>>> to solve the problem scope of unique identifiers for all the tiddlers >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the world. That is not a problem I am interested in at all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 10:43:06 AM UTC-3 PMario wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> TLDR; I think a "counter" used as UID will fail in the short run! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I did my post my concerns at github. >>>>>>>> https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/discussions/5668#discussioncomment-715278 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -mario >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. 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