First off before I get into the guts of your message I'd just like to say that if we didn't want feedback on the stuff in the spaces you referenced we wouldn't have made them public, so no need to feel worried about jumping in too soon or inappropriately: Jumping in is exactly what we want.
That said I think I can clarify a few things within... On Thu, 5 May 2011, PMario wrote:
You've had your april1111 session. Reading all the content in april1111 [1] and colmjude's space [2] + all links inside the tiddlers + everything I could find. I see there have been many interesting things discussed and heavy brainstorming still goes on. ...
Yes. It was quite an exciting period with lots of interesting ideas bounced around. One of the things that may not be clear from the existing writing was that a lot of the discussion was around how Osmosoft organizes itself to be meet a few goals: * being good members of the Tiddly* community * meeting (and hopefully exceeding) its obligations to BT * providing a career building experience for the staff Each of these has to be balanced as they don't always push in the same direction. @april1111 tried to capture what we needed to talk about and some of the minutes of what we _did_ talk about. One of the main things that came out was that we needed to a shared focused goal, one which had what amounted to a deep, almost ethical, underpinning. I created @manifesto2 to lay the ground work of a summary of the ethics and the goals that fall out of that. As you have seen it is unfinished (more on that in a moment).
a) A manifesto is a "public declaration of principles and intentions".
[snip]
b) It will not attend to the details of implementation but rather the
[snip]
It seems, that some of these tiddlers are still part of the brainstorming process, and IMO too implementation related. and contrary to b).
Yes, I agree. While I stubbed in the base of the manifesto, leaving opportunistic links for other people to fill in, that filling in process did not really happen. Instead, enthusiasm for getting on with some experimentation won out. This is a problem I often encounter: I like and find it easy to write, especially as a way of figuring out what to do, but others are often less keen and want to get to do. That's fairly normal/inevitable/common but does leave a few gaps for observers of the manifesto that really ought to be filled.
May be I am wrong and the linked tiddlers have to be interpreted in the sense of a) and they are "public declaration of principles and intentions" ... then I have to say. Some of these principles are really _scary_ ... for me.
It's on this fear that I hope you will expand. If I had to guess I would imagine that you are worried because you see TiddlyWiki being marginalized in the discussions of future development. Is that one of the things that worries you? If so, don't worry too much: While it is true that we hope to build tiddler based applications that do not use TiddlyWiki as the primary interface, TiddlyWiki will not go away: The existing functionality in TiddlySpace of a wiki representation of the tiddlers in a space will remain. The idea of the "notes" application is that it will operate on the same data structures used by TiddlySpace, but with modern JavaScript techniques to create a super fast and super simple way to create and link notes. Those notes will be tiddlers. At this stage that's the leading idea on how best to take advantage of tiddlers on the web, for the most people. One of the insights from our discussion is that it is the tiddlers themselves, not TiddlyWiki which hold the most value: That's the idea that we want to take across the chasm between dedicated TiddlyWiki users (who already know that tiddlers are awesome) and people who find TiddlyWiki too complex, too flexible and honestly, too weird. All those characteristics are what make TiddlyWiki much loved and very useful, so it won't be dismissed or downgraded: TiddlyWiki will remain, but the notes concept can be one way of brining people into the community.
In short: - It would be nice to get an "official" summary of your _decisions_.
Yes, but at this point there aren't any, there are only explorations, and what you are witnessing in the spaces you mention are those explorations.
- It is very confusing (at least for me) that the manifesto displays "alien tiddlers". So I can't tell if they are really part of the manifesto, or just ideas, to be discussed.
The manifesto itself is just ideas thus far: not yet complete. -- Chris Dent http://burningchrome.com/ [...] -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWikiDev" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywikidev@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywikidev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywikidev?hl=en.
