That was a wink, Said, not a howl...
Le 19 févr. 2014 à 17:25, Said Jackson a écrit : > Mike, > > They are already giving you another way to calibrate the unit, different from > how you think they should have done it and you are pulling out the statist > card and accusing them of being greedy capitalists? > > Come on, thats backseat driving. Be happy they invested millions of their own > money and put out a more or less affordable new counter in a market flooded > with good low-cost used counters. > > Bye, > Said > > Sent From iPhone > > On Feb 19, 2014, at 0:33, mike cook <michael.c...@sfr.fr> wrote: > >> >> Le 19 févr. 2014 à 01:05, Tom Knox a écrit : >> >>> Thanks Tom and Bob, I have been thinking of contacting Agilent for some >>> time. I think they are a great company with some good products, but there >>> are a few real blind spots in some current products. I also have seen in >>> the past a genuine interest in listening. I would be willing to approach >>> them if I could enlist your help in addressing potential changes to improve >>> the product. >>> Thanks; >>> Thomas Knox >> >> If they are steering the VCXXO,OCXO from the Ext. Ref. , then they are in >> effect calibrating it. Why not remember the applied EFC when they get phase >> lock? That can be applied when the internal timebase is selected. >> It couldn't be that they might lose the chance to sell a signal generator >> ;-), as calibration needs a square wave input, and the Ext. Ref In is >> ignored. >> >>> >>>> From: li...@rtty.us >>>> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 18:00:17 -0500 >>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com >>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] strange behavior of 53230A or is the light on, >>>> but nobody in? >>>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> Well at least this got me digging a little. >>>> >>>> If you grab a copy of the 53230A spec sheet and look under the external >>>> reference input, it’s pretty well described. It will accept 1, 5,10 MHz as >>>> an external reference. It will lock over a 1 ppm range with the XO option >>>> and 0.1 ppm with the OCXO option. Based on that I’d guess they are still >>>> using the same basic PLL approach as on the older counters (5335 era). >>>> >>>> The “Microsoft Windows inside” sticker on the back of the counter was a >>>> bit of a surprise …. >> >> No sticker on mine. >> >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:51 AM, Tom Van Baak (lab) <t...@leapsecond.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> TomK, >>>>> >>>>> If anyone has technical contacts deep within Agilent, let's see if this >>>>> issue can be resolved. I would have bought a 53230A when it came out a >>>>> few years ago but my eval units showed this clock noise problem. That >>>>> plus the poor quality of the ref out made me think the designers were >>>>> cutting corners, or had little experience in metrology, or maybe they >>>>> thought this was "ok" for a bench instrument. >>>>> >>>>> Otherwise it's a really nice counter; the first one from Agilent than can >>>>> actually do ADEV properly (since it is a time stamping counter). >>>>> >>>>> I should dig out my old data and send it to you. Maybe as group we can >>>>> help them fix the problem. >>>>> >>>>> /tvb >>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 12:10 AM, Tom Knox <act...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I have asked Agilent >>>>>> if stock versions of the 53230A and 53132A switched the internal >>>>>> oscillator out of circuit with an Ext Ref signal >>>>>> applied. I thought >>>>>> Agilent's engineer was intentionally vague but said the oscillators were >>>>>> indeed switched out of circuit on the counter with Ext Ref signal >>>>>> applied. These questions were related to several 53132A's I have seen >>>>>> configured with a small board back near the Ext Ref input (OPT H01 I >>>>>> think) that appeared to Switch the internal reference out of circuit. >>>>>> Agilent would not share information on the option. My question to >>>>>> Agilent is why sell an option and be unwilling to say what it does or >>>>>> how your stock unit functions? >>>>>> Thomas Knox >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: t...@leapsecond.com >>>>>>> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 09:38:28 -1000 >>>>>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] strange behavior of 53230A or is the light on, >>>>>>> but nobody in? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bob, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm wondering if you (or any else) has measured the PLL performance of >>>>>>> the 53230-series? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I agree it will "clean up the crud" but this assumes the ext ref is >>>>>>> dirtier than the internal osc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What I found instead was that if you use a good external ref the PLL >>>>>>> actually makes it worse. This was very disappointing. The XO version of >>>>>>> the counter performed worse than the OCXO version even with a maser as >>>>>>> the ext reference. Did your reading of the schematic show a way to >>>>>>> directly use the ext ref, bypassing the noisy PLL? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The other thing I found was that the ref out signal was a very polluted >>>>>>> copy of the ref in. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /tvb (i5s) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:04 AM, Bob Camp <li...@rtty.us> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you dig into the schematics (when they supplied them … ): >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The external reference goes into a phase detector. It’s one of those >>>>>>>> digital ones that can lock up to many inputs. You could feed >>>>>>>> 3.33333333 MHz in as a standard input as well as 0.5, 1, 2.5, 5, and >>>>>>>> 10 MHz. The internal oscillator (or an internal oscillator) is phase >>>>>>>> locked to the external input through a fairly narrow analog loop. The >>>>>>>> idea is to clean up the crud on the standard line. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With no external reference, the PLL drops out and you go back to what >>>>>>>> ever the local reference is. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes there’s a little more to it than that and no the circuit is not >>>>>>>> exactly the same on every counter HP ever made. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bob >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:55 AM, wb6bnq <wb6...@cox.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Mike, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The most likely answer is when you select external time base for an >>>>>>>>> input, it disables the connection for the internal oscillator. The >>>>>>>>> external input signal is probably also routed straight to the >>>>>>>>> reference output jack. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> However, it would be good to read the manual, as they usually cover >>>>>>>>> how those connections work. Otherwise, perhaps someone that owns one >>>>>>>>> could provide further insight. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bill....WB6BNQ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> mike cook wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Something that must be simple to explain, but that I can't get my >>>>>>>>>> head round. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I got a new 53230A. >>>>>>>>>> When first using it, I measured my T-Bolt 10MHz using the internal >>>>>>>>>> 10MHz timebase and it came up short of 10MHz, 9.999 998 5xx. I >>>>>>>>>> wasn't worried about it as the counter only has a TCXO internal >>>>>>>>>> oscillator. So I fired up my PRS10 and after leaving that on for >>>>>>>>>> some time, connected it to Ext Ref. , changed to the ext time base >>>>>>>>>> and measured again. This time 10.000.000.00x. Then I switched the >>>>>>>>>> two references, measuring the PRS10 against the T-Bolt. Again I got >>>>>>>>>> 10MHz down to the 11th digit. >>>>>>>>>> All that looked good so I have been using it with either the PRS10 >>>>>>>>>> locked to GPS, or the T-Bolt as the external time base. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> After leaving it on (but not inactive) for a month, I did an >>>>>>>>>> Autocal. No problem. >>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if that would have changed the internal time base >>>>>>>>>> frequency, but no, using that still gave similar figures to the >>>>>>>>>> above. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So at that point I decided to measure the Internal TB against my >>>>>>>>>> reference. So I connected the Int. Ref. Out to channel 1, connected >>>>>>>>>> my PRS10 ref to Ext. Ref In, selected the EXT time base and found >>>>>>>>>> that the count was 10MHz dead on????? I don't get that at all. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> in summary: >>>>>>>>>> DUT against internal TB counts < 10MHz. To me that means that the >>>>>>>>>> internal timebase is a bit fast. Is that assumption correct? >>>>>>>>>> DUT against Ext.Ref counts 10MHz >>>>>>>>>> Internal TB against Ext.Ref counts 10MHz. If my assumption >>>>>>>>>> above is correct, the count should be greater than 10MHz, no? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can anyone shed any light on that? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
