That's true, Dick, although we had some guys who were very fast with straight keys. And some of us who despised bugs...and still do.
On Wednesday, June 22, 2016, Richard W. Solomon <w1...@earthlink.net> wrote: > Back before Iambic Paddles and Computer Keyers, the Vibroplex Bug > (or some copy cat version) was the key of choice. > > You could ID Operators by what they called ..."swing"... , the > spacing between Dots and Dashes. > > 73, Dick, W1KSZ > > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com <javascript:;>] On > Behalf Of William H. Fite > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 6:54 AM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Measuring receiver... > > I was a newbie at the very tail end of commercial telegraphy but the old > guys spoke of operators who "sent with an accent" and one apparently > memorable employee who "stammered." > > > On Wednesday, June 22, 2016, Bob Camp <kb...@n1k.org <javascript:;>> > wrote: > > > Hi > > > > Based on what I have read, at least at the start of WWII, the > > recognition was all done by ear. The operator rather than the > > transmitter was the key. The gear to do much else simply was not out > > in the field. > > > > Bob > > > > > > > On Jun 21, 2016, at 9:01 PM, William H. Fite <omni...@gmail.com > <javascript:;> > > <javascript:;>> wrote: > > > > > > In the days of my misspent youth, I worked as a telegrapher (one of > > > the very last) for a Norwegian shipping line. We sent and received > > > both Norwegian and English though few of us were bilingual. Between > > > ships and shore stations, there were about forty of us and we all > > > could recognize each other's "fists" with near-perfect accuracy. > > > This is not difficult, gentlemen, and does not require any esoteric > signal analysis. > > Transmitters > > > would be a different story. > > > > > > Bill KJ4SLP > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, June 21, 2016, John Ackermann N8UR <j...@febo.com > <javascript:;> > > <javascript:;>> wrote: > > > > > >> I've seen references that at least by the latter part of WW2 > > oscillographs > > >> were being used to identify transmitters and/or ops. It should be > > possible > > >> to deduce chirp, rise time, fall time of signals, all of which > > characterize > > >> the transmitter, as well as element spacing and other > > >> characteristics > > that > > >> help identify the operator, from oscilloscope snapshots of the > > demodulated > > >> audio at various sweep speeds. > > >> > > >> > > >>> On Jun 21, 2016, at 7:02 PM, Alan Melia <alan.me...@btinternet.com > <javascript:;> > > <javascript:;> > > >> <javascript:;>> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> TX "fingerprinting" in WWII > > >>> You seem to be forgetting that there were very few of the > > >>> sophisticated > > >> digital timing systems were available 75 years ago. Traffic > > >> analysis was started early in 1938 or even before. By 1939 we knew > > >> all the nets used > > in > > >> Europe and had "Y" ( a corruption of WI, Wireless Intercept > > >> )operators monitoring the nets. Many of these were amateurs and > > >> they were > > allocated to > > >> specific nets and followed them around as they moved. They became > > >> very familiar with the "accents" of operators on their nets, and > > >> particularly before 1939 security procedures were very lax and > "chatting" > > >> common-place.....but it was all aural. > > >>> > > >>> I suspect serious transmitter parameter logging was not done > > >>> before the > > >> cold war when spectrum analysers, or at least pan-adapters became > > >> more readily available. To keep a little OnTopic .....you would > > >> have > > difficulty > > >> doing this with a BC-221.!! :-)) A crystal clock of this period was > > >> at least one fully utilised 6foot 19inch rack (there is one at > > >> Grenwich.) > > >>> Alan > > >>> G3NYK > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Alan > > >>> G3NYK > > >>> > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jimlux" <jim...@earthlink.net > <javascript:;> > > <javascript:;> > > >> <javascript:;>> > > >>> To: <time-nuts@febo.com <javascript:;> <javascript:;> > <javascript:;>> > > >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 10:02 PM > > >>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Measuring receiver... > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>>> On 6/21/16 11:28 AM, Brooke Clarke wrote: > > >>>>> Hi: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> During W.W.II there were secret methods of "fingerprinting" > > >>>>> radio transmitters and separately the operators. > > >>>>> I suspect the transmitter fingerprinting involved things like > > frequency > > >>>>> accuracy, stability, CW rise and decay time, &Etc. For the > > >>>>> operator > > >> some > > >>>>> from of statistics on the timings associated with sending Morse > Code. > > >>>>> But. . . I haven't seen any papers describing this. Can anyone > > point > > >>>>> me to a paper on this? > > >>>> For "human controlled" stuff, e.g. recognizing someone's "fist", > > >> there's a huge literature out there on biometric identification > > >> looking > > at > > >> things like keyboard and mouse click timing - the timing > > >> requirements > > are > > >> pretty slack, and hardly time-nuts level, unless you're looking to > > >> do it with mechanical devices constructed from spare twigs and > > >> strands of > > kelp. > > >>>> > > >>>> There have been a variety of schemes for recognizing individual > > >>>> radios > > >> by looking at the frequency vs time as they start up. Likewise, > > >> it's > > pretty > > >> easy to distinguish radar magnetrons from each other. Not a lot of > > papers > > >> about this, but you'll see it in advertising literature, or > > occasionally in > > >> conference pubs (although I can't think of any off hand). There > > >> was someone selling a repeater access control system that was based > > >> on the transmitter fingerprint. > > >>>> > > >>>> But the real reason why you don't see any publications is that > > >>>> this > > >> stuff is pretty classic signals intelligence (SIGINT or MASINT) and > > >> it > > is > > >> still being used, and is all classified. You're not relying on > > >> Betty the receiver operator to recognize the characteristic chirp > > >> as the agent's radio is keyed, it's all done by computer now, but > > >> the basic idea is the same. And as with most of this stuff, the > > >> basics are well known, but > > the > > >> practical details are not, or, at least, are the proprietary secret > > sauce > > >> in any practical system. (In a significant understatement, Dixon, > > >> in "Spread Spectrum Systems" makes some comment about how synch > > acquisition is > > >> the difficult part and won't be described in the book) > > >>>> > > >>>> You might look at the unclassified proceedings of conferences > > >>>> like > > >> MILCOM and find something. Googling with MASINT might also help. > > >>>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com <javascript:;> > <javascript:;> > > <javascript:;> > > >>>> To unsubscribe, go to > > >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > >>>> and follow the instructions there. > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com <javascript:;> > <javascript:;> > > <javascript:;> > > >>> To unsubscribe, go to > > >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > >>> and follow the instructions there. > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com <javascript:;> > <javascript:;> > > <javascript:;> > > >> To unsubscribe, go to > > >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > >> and follow the instructions there. > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > I am Pulse. Unbreakable. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com <javascript:;> > <javascript:;> To > > > unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com <javascript:;> > <javascript:;> To > > unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > -- > I am Pulse. Unbreakable. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com <javascript:;> To > unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com <javascript:;> > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- I am Pulse. Unbreakable. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
