> Wayne very good progress. You can actually feed the loop coild that exists > with the cap it should resonate. > Thats my plan at least.
Thanks, Paul. Actually, after running a few more tests, the BALDR seems to now set quite reliably with the wire just wrapped around the ferrite rod as long as the clock is with 2 inches of the ferrite rod. I'm using the WWVB receiver module in another experiment, so I don't want to risk damaging the module by applying a 5 volt PVM signal to the coil. But, I have a another WWVB receiver module on order so, once it arrives, I'll try out your suggestion. I've also ordered some ferrite rods in order try my hand at rolling a 60 kHz antenna from scratch, so that will be another adventure. Wayne On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 8:04 PM paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote: > Wayne very good progress. You can actually feed the loop coild that exists > with the cap it should resonate. > Thats my plan at least. > Regards > Paul > WB8TSL > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 9:44 PM, Wayne Holder <wayne.hol...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > I've had some luck improving things with my ATTiny85-based WWVB Simulator > > design by replacing the crappy, 8 MHz internal oscillator with an 8 MHz > > crystal and removing the tweaked timer values I had previously used. In > > addition, based on a suggestion from Paul Swed, I tried looping the > antenna > > wire a few times around the ferrite rod of a WWVB receiver module I > > happened to have lying around and this also greatly improved things (see > > photo on web page at > > https://sites.google.com/site/wayneholder/controlling-time). In fact, > > with > > the ferrite rod in place, the BALDR clock now syncs even when completely > > disconnected from being grounded to the ATTiny85 and the scope. > > > > I've updated my web page, and the source code at the bottom of the page, > > accordingly. BTW, the SYNC output is now moved to pin 7 and the PPS > output > > is currently disabled in the code. In addition, I've added some > additional > > info on my web page about how to compile and download the program to an > > ATTiny85 using ATTinyCore by Spence Konde. > > > > I've ordered a 15.36 MHz crystal to try, as that should let the ATTiny85 > > generate a true, 60,000 Hz output but, so far, the 8 MHz crystal has > helped > > improve things quite a bit. In addition, I plan to do more tests on > > different types of antennas in order to see if I can make things even > more > > reliable and stable. > > > > I still plan on reworking the code so it can also run on a 328-based > > Arduino board but, currently, the Arduino IDE has no easy way to work > with > > boards that don't use a standard, 16 MHz crystal, as this frequency is > used > > by the serial port and, in turn, by the boot loader, so altering it can > > break the ability to upload code. This has actually caused some issues > for > > some of my other projects, so I'm investigating how this issue might be > > handled. > > > > Also, if anyone is interested in trying out other modulation schemes, I > can > > easily add a compile option t the code that will let it output a binary > > low/high modulation signal instead of the PWM signal. > > > > Wayne > > > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 8:53 AM paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Wayne as I work through the chronverter I do know the good phase > tracking > > > clocks really demand on frequency behavior. As I measured its +/- .6 Hz > > at > > > 60 KHz. I believe the cheapy wall clocks are a bit wider, but not sure > as > > > they are hard to actually measure. They do use a small tuning fork > > crystal > > > and from experience these are sharp. When I experimented with them they > > > were maybe 5 Hz. Indeed the Chinese website had 25 X 60 KHz crystals > for > > > maybe $2. > > > With respect to the antenna. My thinking is a loopstick resonated on 60 > > KHz > > > and most likely driving it push pull or single ended. Thats 1 > transistor > > if > > > single ended as common collector if I had to guess. The reason is the > > > micros put out a fair level of signal so its a case of upping current > > into > > > the antenna. But it really will be a bit of experimenting. > > > I did look at your code and that was so nice it opened up straight into > > the > > > arduino IDE. > > > Regards > > > Paul > > > WB8TSL > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 5:12 AM, Wayne Holder <wayne.hol...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > For anyone trying out my ATTiny85 code, I've done some additional > tests > > > and > > > > find that placement of the antenna near the clock is very finicky > and, > > so > > > > far, the only way to get a reliable decode of the time in the clock > is > > by > > > > using a scope to monitor the demodulated output and then moving the > > > antenna > > > > around until the demodulated signal lines up cleanly with modulated > > > carrier > > > > and there are no intra bit glitches. This can take a bit of > patience, > > so > > > > clearly a better solution needs to be found. I've found that any > type > > of > > > > glitch in the demodulated signal seems to prevent the clock chip from > > > > decoding the time. > > > > > > > > It's possible the difficultly with locking onto my simulated WWVB > > signal > > > > may be partially due to the design of the clock (from my location > it's > > > > never been able to to lock onto the real WWVB signal), but I have no > > > > reference to compare it against so, for now, I have conclude that the > > > > PWM-based modulation scheme my code uses may also be suboptimal for > > this > > > > application. To make testing even more frustrating, the BALDR clock > > I'm > > > > using will only look for a signal for about 6 minutes before it goes > to > > > > sleep and I have to then power cycle the clock to get it to listen > > again. > > > > > > > > So, keep this in mind if you're going to try and replicate my > results. > > > > > > > > Wayne > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 6:03 PM Wayne Holder <wayne.hol...@gmail.com > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > For those that have asked for my to publish the source code for my > > > > > ATTiny85-based WWVB simulator, I have put up a somewhat hurriedly > > > written > > > > > page on my google site at: > > > > > > > > > > https://sites.google.com/site/wayneholder/controlling-time > > > > > > > > > > that describes a bit about how the code works, how to compile it > > using > > > > the > > > > > Arduino IDE, how I tested it, some issues I have observed in > testing > > it > > > > > and, at the bottom of the page, a downloadable zip file that > contains > > > the > > > > > complete source code. > > > > > > > > > > Note: as mentioned at the top of this page, this is currently a > work > > in > > > > > process, so I'm not yet going to link the article to my main > website > > > > page, > > > > > so you'll need to link in this post to find it. Also, as draft, > I'm > > > > going > > > > > to continue to revise the page until I feel the project is complete > > > > enough > > > > > to publish. That means the source code zip file is going to > > > potentially > > > > > change from time to time, too. > > > > > > > > > > Wayne > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:35 AM Wayne Holder < > wayne.hol...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> As a follow up, I now have a simple WWVB simulator written in C > > that's > > > > >> now running an an ATTiny85 using nothing more than the internal, 8 > > > > >> mHz oscillator and about a 6 inch length of wire connected to one > of > > > the > > > > >> pins as an antenna. It generates an approximate 60 kHz signal > using > > > > PWM on > > > > >> timer 1. I tweaked the timer value a bit to correct for some > > variance > > > > in > > > > >> the internal oscillator, but I' not even sure that was necessary, > as > > > my > > > > >> target is just a BALDR Model B0114ST, consumer grade "Atomic" > > clock. > > > > >> Modulation is done by varying the duty cycle of the PWM to > > approximate > > > > the > > > > >> -17 dBr drop on the carrier. But, again, I don't think this value > > is > > > > >> critical with a consumer clock chip. I tapped the demodulated > > output > > > > >> inside the clock and displayed it on my scope along with the > > generated > > > > >> signal and I got good, steady demodulation with the wire antenna > > just > > > > >> placed near clock. The next step is to connect up a GPS module > and > > > add > > > > >> code to use it to set the time. I'm also going to change the code > > to > > > > use > > > > >> the PPS signal from the GPS to drive the output timing rather than > > the > > > > test > > > > >> code I have now that uses timer 0 to generate the PPS interrupt. > > I'm > > > > happy > > > > >> to share details if anyone is interested. > > > > >> > > > > >> Wayne > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 2:51 PM, paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> That would be a great neighbor to have but I can tell you around > > here > > > > its > > > > >>> the phone. Not to concerned about someone putting up a wwvb > > > > replacement. > > > > >>> And I can always up the power. Chickle. > > > > >>> Regards > > > > >>> Paul > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 2:34 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> > wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > Hi > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > The gotcha is if you have neighbors two or three doors away > that > > > > *also* > > > > >>> > put up one of > > > > >>> > these devices. You then have a real problem with the > neighbor(s) > > in > > > > the > > > > >>> > middle. The > > > > >>> > wavelength is long enough that Raleigh issues won’t get you. > You > > > > still > > > > >>> > have the two > > > > >>> > signals ( at slightly different frequencies) beating against > each > > > > >>> other. > > > > >>> > The result is > > > > >>> > going to show up as who knows what to this or that receiver. > > With a > > > > >>> > precision receiver, > > > > >>> > you might even have issues from the guy two houses away …... > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > Bob > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > On Aug 26, 2018, at 1:08 PM, paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > Agree with the conversation. With respect to neighbors when > the > > > day > > > > >>> comes > > > > >>> > > they may ask you to boost your signal. :-) > > > > >>> > > Granted maybe the day won't come but at least having your > local > > > > >>> clocks > > > > >>> > work > > > > >>> > > is nice. > > > > >>> > > Regards > > > > >>> > > Paul > > > > >>> > > WB8TSL > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 10:29 PM, Dana Whitlow < > > > > >>> k8yumdoo...@gmail.com> > > > > >>> > > wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > >> With the watch being physically close to the faux WWVB > > > > >>> "transmitter", > > > > >>> > one > > > > >>> > >> is in > > > > >>> > >> the so-called "near field" regime, where the field strength > > > (V/m) > > > > >>> falls > > > > >>> > as > > > > >>> > >> the inverse > > > > >>> > >> cube of the distance. If one is putting the watch, say, > > within > > > a > > > > >>> few > > > > >>> > >> inches of the > > > > >>> > >> transmitter, reliable reception should be available yet the > > > signal > > > > >>> > should > > > > >>> > >> be literally > > > > >>> > >> undetectable by any practical receiving device more than a > few > > > > feet > > > > >>> > away. > > > > >>> > >> Hence, > > > > >>> > >> meeting the FCC field strength limit should be trivial.if > the > > > > >>> device is > > > > >>> > >> used as pictured. > > > > >>> > >> However, if one cranks up the power enough to reliably cover > > > one's > > > > >>> > entire > > > > >>> > >> house, > > > > >>> > >> then there might be a problem depending how close the > nearest > > > > >>> neighbor > > > > >>> > >> lives, > > > > >>> > >> even at levels well within the FCC limit he quotes. > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>> > >> Taking the near field relationship in hand, 40 uV/m at 300m > > > would > > > > >>> > translate > > > > >>> > >> into > > > > >>> > >> a whopping 0.135 V/m at 20 meters range, more than enough to > > > feed > > > > >>> most > > > > >>> > >> peoples' > > > > >>> > >> entire house. So the pragmatic issue would again be- > > neighbors. > > > > >>> On the > > > > >>> > >> other > > > > >>> > >> hand, most of them would never be aware of the local signal > as > > > > long > > > > >>> as > > > > >>> > they > > > > >>> > >> get good > > > > >>> > >> time settings, unless they live close enough to Ft. Collins > > for > > > > the > > > > >>> two > > > > >>> > >> signals to > > > > >>> > >> contend with each other. > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>> > >> It looks to me like the ferrite rod antenna is considerable > > > > >>> overkill. > > > > >>> > Even > > > > >>> > >> with no > > > > >>> > >> purposeful antenna I'd expect leakage to yield sufficient > > signal > > > > >>> for at > > > > >>> > >> least a few > > > > >>> > >> inches. > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>> > >> Dana > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>> > >> On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 8:11 PM Wayne Holder < > > > > >>> wayne.hol...@gmail.com> > > > > >>> > >> wrote: > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>> > >>> This guy has what looks like a well thought out design > using > > a > > > > >>> > Sirf-Based > > > > >>> > >>> GPS and ATTiny44A chip to generate a signal to update his > > > watch: > > > > >>> > >>> > > > > >>> > >>> https://www.anishathalye.com/2016/12/26/micro-wwvb/ > > > > >>> > >>> > > > > >>> > >>> Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to have published a > schematic > > or > > > > his > > > > >>> > >> source > > > > >>> > >>> code. But, he covers enough detail that I think it > wouldn't > > be > > > > too > > > > >>> > hard > > > > >>> > >> to > > > > >>> > >>> replicate what he's done. Or, perhaps he would disclose > > these > > > > >>> details > > > > >>> > if > > > > >>> > >>> contacted. > > > > >>> > >>> > > > > >>> > >>> Wayne > > > > >>> > >>> > > > > >>> > >>> On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 4:33 AM, D. Resor < > > > > organli...@pacbell.net> > > > > >>> > >> wrote: > > > > >>> > >>> > > > > >>> > >>>> I thought I would search in a different way for a WWVB > > signal > > > > >>> > generator > > > > >>> > >>>> design. I found this item. While the designer explains > it > > > > isn't > > > > >>> as > > > > >>> > >>>> accurate as WWVB it may be another starting point. > > > > >>> > >>>> > > > > >>> > >>>> http://www.tauntek.com/wwvbgen-low-cost-wwvb-time- > > > > >>> > signal-generator.htm > > > > >>> > >>>> > > > > >>> > >>>> > > > > >>> > >>>> > > > > >>> > >>>> Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co. > > > > >>> > >>>> http://hammondorganservice.com > > > > >>> > >>>> Hammond USA warranty service > > > > >>> > >>>> "Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they > > do, > > > > but > > > > >>> they > > > > >>> > >>>> don't." --Jonathan Winters > > > > >>> > >>>> > > > > >>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > > > >>> > >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > > > >>> > >>>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/ > > > > >>> > >>>> listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > > > >>> > >>>> and follow the instructions there. > > > > >>> > >>>> > > > > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > > >>> > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > > > >>> > >>> To unsubscribe, go to > > > > >>> > >>> > > > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > > > >>> > >>> and follow the instructions there. > > > > >>> > >>> > > > > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >>> > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > > > >>> > >> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/ > > > > >>> > >> listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > > > >>> > >> and follow the instructions there. > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ > > > > >>> > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > > > >>> > > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/ > > > > >>> > listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > > > >>> > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > > > > >>> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > > > >>> > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/ > > > > >>> > listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > > > >>> > and follow the instructions there. > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > > > >>> To unsubscribe, go to > > > > >>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > > > >>> and follow the instructions there. > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > > > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/ > > > > listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > > To unsubscribe, go to > > > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/ > > listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > > and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.