> Stephen Black: > > First, Jim objects to my suggestion that Flew's supposed sudden > conversion to God may indicate the onset of Alzheimer's because > "from my angle you reflexively went to an explanation that seems > unlikely (given the relatively small percentage of individuals his > age that suffer from Alzheimer's)." > > It's easy to check this. Flew is 81 years old. An authoritative > website, theforgetting.com, "an online resource fo the Alzheimer's > community" > (http://www.randomhouse.com/features/forgetting/whatis.html) > says that 13% of 77-year-olds and 50% of those 85 years old or older > have dementia. So rather than there being a '"relatively small > percentage of individuals his age that suffer from Alzheimer's", the > percentage is substantial.
It becomes substantial after the age of 85 (and we're talking the 85-120 range). At the age of 81, and the fact that Flew seems to be still very active professionally and intellectually, I remain convinced it would be unlikely. > From age alone, Professor Flew is at high > risk of Alzheimer's. High risk? No. His age and mental activity considered I would say he is much higher than you and me. > Of course, his recent articulate statement > refuting news of his conversion suggests otherwise. Suggests what -- are you now withdrawing your assertion of dementia? > > What if a prominent racist changed his tune in later years -- would > > you also chalk that up to dementia? > I have a better example. But first why not answer MINE? > What if a life-long Firm Believer such as > Jim Guinee at age 81 suddenly decided to curse God and become an > atheist? I'd certainly suspect the onset of dementia in such a case. > (Fortunately, this example is hypothetical). That's a good question. And I admit, if this occurred SUDDENLY I would be willing to entertain dementia. But I don't think your example is fair. In Flew's case, whatever he now believes (or doesn't believe) it doesn't seem to be much of a change. If an 81-year-old began to admit to me that "I don't know if I believe in God anymore" or discarded a few elements of his/her theology I would be much less inclined to assume dementia. That is why I objected to your assessment and why I object to your example. If Flew had suddenly claimed newfound religious faith (he hasn't), then I can understand why everyone (INCLUDING ME) would be skeptical/suspicious. Does that make sense? > Next issue: my comment that "Firm Believers... say that an allegedly > loving God is going to torture me in Hell for all eternity for not > believing" drew this startling response from Jim: > > "No firm believer that I know if [of] believes that or teaches that, > and it's not based on biblical interpretation". > > Especially as Jim himself (back on Feb 28th, 2001, this list) said: > > "Admittedly, a very unpleasant aspect of biblical Christianity is the > belief that non-Christians go to a very bad place". I already made it clear the objection is to the notion of God torturing people in hell. The belief that some non-Christian people go to hell is part of Christian teaching. Further, I don't see why you introduced Christianity into the discussion. It was about Flew and atheism/theism. I found your comment irrelevant and a distraction. > Now, I'm ok wth allowing people to believe > whatever they like about what happens to _them_, but I do find it > offensive when they extend their beliefs to what happens to _me_. I can understand that, but I don't happen to agree. If someone of a different faith says what's good for me is good for him, I disagree, but I don't get offended. If a person really believes Jesus died for his/her sins, what sense would it make to say "Well, he died for me, but you don't need saving because you're so much better than me?" > It > seems a rather small step from believing that I'm going to suffer an > eternity in Hell to believing that I'm _now_ less than human (see > Lorenz, Konrad). I wouldn't know why anyone, especially in Christendom, would believe THAT. To me that would be a huge step, given your less than human status implicitly endorses evolution (sorry, bad joke). > Illustrative anecdote: My wife likes to occasionally disclose that > she's Jewish to her students, as most have never knowingly met one in > person (one response, from an adult (middle-aged) student, "Oh you > can't be Jewish! You're nice! [See also > http://www.landoverbaptist.org/thelittlejew.htm]). I hope you realize that "landoverbaptist" is a satirical site that lampoons Christianity. I am confident you know this, but I have met a few intellectuals on the net who didn't realize that. Some of their stuff is hilarious, btw. Jim G --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: [email protected] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
