In an earlier post, I noted my suspicion that our acceptance of Fechner as the possible source of the iceberg analogy may be premature, given the ambiguity in the Ernest Jones reference on which this conclusion is based. I said that I was going to check the original (Book 2 of Elemente der Psychophysik, available only in German).
On 24 May 2006 at 15:04, Jeffry Ricker wrote: >But remember, the ice analogy may not have originated with Fechner. As I >reported in an e-mail the other day, Hoffman, Cochran, and Nead (1990) >stated that J. F. Herbart (1816/1891) and "many others": "relied on a >metaphor of ice floating on water. Ideas float near the surface of >consciousness unless they sink or are suppressed by other ideas" (p. >185). I agree (well, partly). Even if Fechner did use the iceberg analogy (which I'm now questioning) , unless he helpfully provided a source himself, it's always possible that he lifted it from some earlier author. The farther back we go the harder it is to search, and unless someone gets very lucky, it would probably be impossible to find. I would be happy to find that Fechner was the verified author of an iceberg analogy of the mind. Because Freud said he relied on Fechner, it's not so hard to then imagine that this eventually led to people confusing what Freud said with what Fechner actually said. Of course, if Freud really said it, then we have a pretty good idea where he got it. But even if Fechner really said it, we don't know who might have said it earlier. Neverthless, I don't think I would consider the Herbart version as you've described it as a true iceberg analogy. Just because it involves ice floating isn't enough. It has to be clear that it is intended to illustrate that, like an iceberg, the unconscious although hidden, occupies the major share of the mind. I just don't see that in the Herbart version. So assuming that the Fechner reference is verified (and my guess is that it won't be), I would then conclude that this is the earliest known use of an iceberg analogy of the mind. Take that, Herbart! BTW, Jeff. I had much difficulty in getting my reply (using Pegasus) to include your message. No matter how I tweaked it, it wouldn't show. I finally did it by copying and pasting it in. I can't recall this problem before, even with people's HTML, and I wonder if you are doing something special. Stephen ----------------------------------------------------------------- Stephen L. Black, Ph.D. Department of Psychology Bishop's University e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2600 College St. Sherbrooke (Lennoxville) QC J1M 0C8 Canada Dept web page at http://www.ubishops.ca/ccc/div/soc/psy TIPS discussion list for psychology teachers at http://faculty.frostburg.edu/psyc/southerly/tips/index.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- --- To make changes to your subscription go to: http://acsun.frostburg.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=tips&text_mode=0&lang=english
