Dave- There is something insightful and something a little philosophically 
playful about the questions. Yes, you are correct that these seem to be 
anthropocentric. Science is an system primarily engaged in through linguistic 
forms and agreements which, in Wittgenstein's way of thinking is a bit of an 
inescapable necessity (how does one play language games outside of linguistic 
constraints?). So yes, I think you are correct that the solutions being 
proffered are, in your words, "subsequently blind to the possibility of 
language as symbolic, semantic, structured, and generative/productive 
manifesting in forms qualitatively distinct from human forms." On the other 
hand, I could not agree more with the sentiment I seem to remember from one of 
the finest minds I had the opportunity to learn from, Ernst von Glasersfeld, 
that the majority of these programs of research seem to strongly suggest that 
infra-humans don't make very good humans (apologies to Ernst if I got that 
wrong!). I'm not saying it isn't possible to scientifically study infra-humans. 
In all honesty, I got that point from reading Fouts' book also. (Yes, we should 
be studying them in/on their own construct levels- I'm not sure how to do that 
scientifically though). On the other hand, perhaps another way of saying that 
is I find other puzzles more appealing and/or I don't mind the anthropocentric 
so long as I know that it is there. ;)
Tim

 

_______________________________
Timothy O. Shearon, PhD
Professor and Chair Department of Psychology
The College of Idaho
Caldwell, ID 83605
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

teaching: intro to neuropsychology; psychopharmacology; general; history and 
systems

"it is not enough these days to simply QUESTION AUTHORITY.
You have to speak with it, too." - Taylor Mali



-----Original Message-----
From: David E. Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Mon 11/5/2007 10:21 PM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
Subject: Re:[tips] Alex, Washoe, and "Next of Kin" by Fouts
 
Not being well versed in this debate, can someone clarify for me why  
the discussion is always about animal acquisition of human language  
and human constructs?  The whole discussion strikes me as terribly  
anthropocentric and subsequently blind to the possibility of language  
as symbolic, semantic, structured, and generative/productive  
manifesting in forms qualitatively distinct from human forms.   
Creating environments for animals to learn and express language on  
human terms may not tap that animals innate capacity.

I'm also curious to know what some of the recent evidence is from the  
study of language among marine mammals such as dolphins and whales.   
Can anyone share?

Thanks for any insight,
Dave



-------------------
David E. Hall, M.S.
Instructor/ Ph.D. Candidate
Systems Science: Psychology
Portland State University
(C) 503-799-5922
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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