...it will be difficult to commit to empirically-based and material explanations of human behavior and experience while maintaining one's beliefs in such things (nonthings?) as supernatural and nonmaterial forces, revealed wisdom, and the like. Ouch. There's been lots of discussion disagreeing with this so I won't add more, but your statement sounds rather intolerant and somewhat offensive to anyone with a faith or religion. It may be hard for you to understand, OK, but I join the voices saying science and religions are not antithetical. -- Jennifer S. Ripley, M.S. Psychology Intern University Counseling Services Virginia Commonwealth University Box 842525 Richmond VA 23284-2525 (804) 828-6200 [EMAIL PROTECTED] "In dreams begin responsibilities" William Butler Yeats