I haven't been following my digests very closely these last weeks but my attention has been caught by the discussions of the above topics. I am a Bible believing Christian, British. From what I can see I share Jim's beliefs and theology quite closely and have appreciated what, to me, have been clear and non-controversial statements of belief that may not be mainstream beliefs among the listmembers. Thank you Jim. I've been impressed with replies too I should add. Personally I don't regard the question of creationism as being terribly important in theological terms (feel free to ask off list if you want to know why); but we have nothing, absolutely nothing, in Britain which compares remotely with the debates that appear to go on in the States. Indeed recently a famous scientist (Richard Dawkins) railed against church schools simply because they might inculcate religious beliefs - no one has even considered teaching creationism. This combined with my own profound christian convictions makes reading about the debate in this list of great, though rather remote, interest to me. One point of interest to me is the similarity in the strength of feeling engendered on both sides of the debate and sometimes an apparent inability to respond to an argument that starts with different underlying assumptions. I have sometimes characterised this as fundementalist thinking, on both sides of the debate. Fundementalist may have different implications in Britain but I see and hear quite a lot of fundementalist darwinism and humanism dressed as scientific orthodoxy from time to time. As a counsellor I was also interested in - and somewhat surprised by - the comments on Christianity and counselling. In particular, the suggestion that Christian counsellors may not or should not or cannot accept the views of somebody who has different views from themselves, or indeed that an non christian would be unable to accept the implied belief of the christian client that the counsellor was bound for hell. Surely there is no counsellor anywhere that expects the client to be a carbon copy of their own beliefs and values. Would it be desirable if there was? I don't intend to open a new thread on cross cultural counselling, but I would worry if I thought that teachers were teaching that we can only work with those we agree with. Equally the comment about shifting deckchairs on the Titanic is an interesting point and I've no doubt that there are some in the church who would agree with it - in fact there is probably a majority of the population of Britain, churched or unchurched, who would suggest that counselling in general is a waste of time and we should pull ourselves together and get on with life. However Christian teaching is actually about love (not damnation), even for people who don't agree with you, so why wouldn't we want to help them? Finally I'd like to address the question of how offensive Christian beliefs may be to other faiths or at least the expression of them. I don't doubt that some are offended, but beware of the presumption of offense. My experience of discussions with people of faith (I would not include agnostics and athiests generally would not include themselves in this category) is that they appreciate the faith of others. Speaking for myself I know I am not offended by the beliefs of other religions (who mostly regard me and others on this list who do not share their faith as destined - in the immortal phrase - for "a bad place"). I was offended by one party who listened to my beliefs (which are exclusive in nature) and then dismissed them by saying "that is fine for you as other beliefs are for other". I would have been more honest to say that she could not accept or agree with the exclusivity of my beliefs as she could only believe in doctrines which can accept alternatives in others. I don't know if I've explained that very well - I suppose the key is that people of faith appreciate faith in others even when they don't agree and don't appreciate having their strongly felt believes devalued in an attempt to make mutually exclusive values fit each other. I think that part of our role as teachers is to demonstate and teach the importance of accepting people and their beliefs/values in taking them seriously even if we don't agree with them. Regards David -- David L Gent South Birmingham College Cole Bank Road Hall Green Birmingham B28 8ES UK Telephone: +44 (0)121 694 5030 Facsimile: +44 (0)121 694 5007 Electronic Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
