I second Rick Froman's thanks to Kevin Grobman for the information about Einstein's links to Jean Piaget, of which I was unaware. But Rick makes a pertinent point when he notes that the exchanges took place well after Einstein had produced his relativity theories, the first of which was in 1905: >it seems to fall a little short of indicating that Einstein's thinking >about developmental psychology pre-dated and influenced his >theorizing about relativity. For example, the date of 1928, mentioned >as the meeting between Einstein and Piaget would have been >well after Einstein's publication of his theory of relativity. .
Alberto Martinez said in the interview: "Surprisingly, there’s more evidence that Einstein was influenced by, of all things, developmental psychology. I’m not saying that this was the most important factor (optics and electrodynamics were far more important), just that it was more important than the factors I just mentioned." I'm left wondering if this is an off-the-cuff-remark alluding to Einstein's relating his views on space-time conceptions to Piaget's work to which Kevin drew attention, or if he is suggesting that there was an *implicit* psychological aspect to Einstein's way of viewing space-time that led to his breakthrough in 1905. There is certainly no indication in the literature of any explicit interest in psychology in this early period of Einstein's life. I'm waiting for the book to arrive, so I should soon find out what Martinez means! Allen Esterson Former lecturer, Science Department Southwark College, London allenester...@compuserve.com http://www.esterson.org ------------------------------------------- From: K. H. Grobman <k...@devpsy.org> Subject: Jean Piaget & Albert Einstein Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 12:02:42 -0500 Hi Rick & Everyone, Rick asks what influence develpmental psychology may have had on Albert Einstein's work. Jean Piaget studied children's invention of time, space, number, and causality (inspired by Immanuel Kant). Einstein focused on the same things in the physical world. Einstein and Piaget spoke with each, and about each other, a number of times. Einstein used the words "so simple only a genius could have thought of it" to describe the theory advanced by ... Jean Piaget that children don't think like grown-ups. ~ Seymour Papert (the inventor of the children's computer programming language Logo writing about Piaget for TIme Magazine's "The Century’s Greatest Minds", page 105, March 29, 1999). Einstein was especially intrigued, not only that children think differently, but that their thinking has its own internal logic (i.e., stage). It's much like relativity has its own internal logic separate from the earlier paradigm of Newtonian mechanics. Coming full circle, Kuhn's "paradigm shifts" of scientific progress were inspired by Piaget's stages too. Does a child's first conception of velocity include comprehension of it as a function of distance and time, or is his notion more primitive and intuitive? Albert Einstein himself posed this question to me in 1928 when I was demonstrating some experiments on causality to him one day. I have since performed a very simple experiment which shows that a child does not think of velocity in terms of the distance-time relation. We place before the child two tunnels, one of which is obviously much longer than the other, and then we push a doll through each tunnel with a metal rod in such a way that the dolls arrive at the other end of both tunnels simultaneously. We ask the child: "Is one tunnel longer than the other?" "Yes, that one." "Did both dolls go through the tunnels at the same speed, or did one go faster than the other?" "The same speed." "Why?" "Because they arrived at the same time." ~ Jean Piaget (Scientific American, March 1957). I wish academia today were structued to inspire us to be more like Einstein and Piaget - thinking so deeply about fields beyond our own. Best wishes, Kevin ------------------------------------------------- On Jun 8, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Rick Froman wrote: > Of further relevance to psychology, did anyone else read this part > of the interview with Alberto Martinez: > > http://www.utexas.edu/know/2011/06/06/science_secrets/ > > "As for Einstein, writers have contrived reasons why he made his > theory of relativity: that his wife was his secret coworker, that he > was influenced by patent applications, modern art or mystical > beliefs about God. But no, these are all just myths. Surprisingly, > there’s more evidence that Einstein was influenced by, of all > things, developmental psychology. I’m not saying that this was the > most important factor (optics and electrodynamics were far more > important), just that it was more important than the factors I just > mentioned." > > If others did read it, am I the only one who doesn't know what he is > talking about? What influence did developmental psychology have on > Einstein's theorizing? > > > Rick _.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._ ~ all you can take with you is that which you've given away ~ ~ teaching & learning developmental psychology ~ ~ http://www.DevPsy.org ~ Attached Message From: Rick Froman <rfro...@jbu.edu> Subject: RE: Jean Piaget & Albert Einstein Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 12:53:28 -0500 Thank you, Kevin for that very informative excerpt illuminating the connection between Piaget and Einstein (and the amusing description of the velocity study). It is interesting to consider the ways that children think about time, space, number and causality and how they might be different from adult conceptions just as relativity is different from an intuitive perception of physics. What is described here seems to be an interaction of great minds in seeing the similarities between their work but it seems to fall a little short of indicating that Einstein's thinking about developmental psychology pre-dated and influenced his theorizing about relativity. For example, the date of 1928, mentioned as the meeting between Einstein and Piaget would have been well after Einstein's publication of his theory of relativity. Before I start another relativity-inspired myth, I wonder if there is any evidence that Einstein was influenced by developmental psychology in a way that predated or was concurrent with his theorizing about relativity. Rick Dr. Rick Froman, Chair Division of Humanities and Social Sciences John Brown University Siloam Springs, AR 72761 rfro...@jbu.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. 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