Correct and reasonable.

I see no reason not to have an RFC that specifies ML-KEM, especially when
it's already RECOMMENDED=N. Based on the heat of this discussion, one would
think the controversy was whether it should be Y rather than N, but alas.

On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 2:03 PM Deirdre Connolly <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Here is what is currently on #main of the repo:
>
> ```
> # Security Considerations {#security-considerations}
>
> This document defines standalone ML-KEM key establishment for TLS 1.3.
> Hybrid key establishment mechanisms, which support combining a post-quantum
> algorithm with a traditional algorithm such as ECDH, are supported
> generically via {{HYBRID}} with some concrete definitions in
> {{ECDHE-MLKEM}}. Hybrid mechanisms provide security as long as at least one
> of the component algorithms remains unbroken, such as combining
> quantum-resistant and traditional cryptographic assumptions. Standalone
> ML-KEM relies on lattice-based and hash function cryptographic assumptions
> for its security. Proponents of hybrid PQ/T key establishment generally
> consider it a conservative approach to deployment of newer post-quantum
> schemes alongside older traditional schemes, retaining at least the
> security
> currently offered by traditional algorithms.
>
> The main security property for KEMs is indistinguishability under adaptive
> chosen ciphertext attack (IND-CCA), which means that shared secret values
> should be indistinguishable from random strings even given the ability to
> have other arbitrary ciphertexts decapsulated. IND-CCA corresponds to
> security against an active attacker, and the public encapsulation key /
> secret decapsulation key pair can be treated as a long-term key or reused
> in
> generic usage. ML-KEM satisfies IND-CCA security in the random oracle model
> {{KYBERV}} via a variant of the Fujisaki-Okamoto (FO) transform
> {{FO}}{{HHK}}. Use of KEMs for key agreement in TLS 1.3 has been analyzed
> and
> discussed in multiple settings and security models {{DOWLING}} {{KEMTLS}}
> {{HV22}} {{CHSW22}} {{CZCJWH25}} {{ZJZ24}}: ML-KEM's IND-CCA security
> exceeds
> the requirements for ephemeral key establishment and secure in case of
> reuse
> {{GHS25}} {{RFC8446bis}}.
>
> {{NIST-SP-800-227}} includes guidelines and requirements for
> implementations
> on using KEMs securely. Implementers are encouraged to use implementations
> resistant to side-channel attacks, especially those that can be applied by
> remote attackers.
>
> TLS 1.3's key schedule commits to the ML-KEM encapsulation key and the
> ciphertext as the `key_exchange` field of the `key_share` extension is
> populated with those values, which are included as part of the handshake
> messages. This provides resilience against re-encapsulation attacks against
> KEMs used for key establishment {{CDM23}}.
>
> ```
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2026, 10:30 AM Nico Williams <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 10:04:08AM -0700, Eric Rescorla wrote:
>> > > > is more secure
>> > >
>> > > is a point of debate. The text on #main currently does not state as
>> fact
>> > > one side as more secure than the other
>> >
>> > As Deirdre says, this is contested.
>>
>> There is no doubt that hybrids are at least as secure as their
>> individual components.  And they are more secure than one of their
>> individual components -- the point is that we don't necessarily know
>> which of those components is weaker.
>>
>> I propose we phrase it in that way then:
>>
>>  - hybrids at least as secure as their most secure component
>>
>>    (certainly when the hybrid is designed correctly, and the claim does
>>    need some analysis, but I think no one disputes that a well-designed
>>    hybrid _can be_ t least as secure as...)
>>
>>  - hybrids therefore are more secure than their least secure component
>>
>>  - we don't know which component is weakest or which is strongest
>>
>> The last point is about the biggest points of contention:
>>
>>  - Are CRQCs coming?  Some say never.
>>
>>  - Are any PQC algorigthms known-weak to NSA and/or other TLAs?  Some
>>    say the risk is high of that.
>>
>> So don't make a statement either way, just say that one can be presumed
>> weaked than the other but we don't yet know which.
>>
>> > [...]
>> >
>> > As I said, my preference is for hybrids, but I think trying to produce
>> > some text that will achieve consensus that says, in essence, "hybrids
>> > are better" is quite challenging and probably not worth the effort.
>> > Rather, I think we should just encode it in the Recommended=Y field
>> > and leave it at that.
>>
>> Certainly we need at least one algorithm with PQC as a component, or
>> pure PQC, with Recommended=Y.  At this point a pure PQC algo will not
>> get Recommended=Y, so...
>>
>> Nico
>> --
>>
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