Like Guy K2AV I also did testing of a dipole on the ground here in Indiana. With the antenna laying on the grass using a Vector Z meter I found that resonance (zero degrees reactance or j0) was about 50% of normal length. >From that I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that radials of less than 1/4 wavelength would be more effective than 1/4 length ones. My opinion...ymmv, de gary, kd9sv
-----Original Message----- From: topband-boun...@contesting.com [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of W0UCE Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 1:38 PM To: 'Guy Olinger K2AV'; 'ZR' Cc: 'Pete Smith N4ZR'; topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: What K2AV says about BOGs Guy and I experimented at my former QTH and I ended up with two sets of two element 260' BOG arrays one centered on 45, the other on 285 Degrees and a 75' Square LOG (Loop on Ground) Favoring N/S - All three antennas worked well, always doing better in A/B tests versus my K9AY Loop and often the BOGS were equal to or better than a DXE 4 Square RX System. We also did DOG testing at my QTH - Guy's recommendations and experimental suggestions are well worth consideration, time and effort. 73, Jack It was clear there was a lot of guessing and assumptions in the world of BOG. So we decided to investigate. We MEASURED a lot of wire on ground VF a couple of years ago in and around Raleigh. Not speculated, or guessed. MEASURED. Fellers went out here and there and spread out 151' DOGS, and reported resonance, plus X and R readings for resonance and +/- 50 kHz. The 151' was chosen to have a simple (46m) metric equivalent and a resonance up where the MFJ's could see it and roughly in the 160 meter band or above. They were measuring anywhere between .45 and .8 VF. Sometimes, nearly that variation in the same back yard just by reorienting the wire. In an individual case you could get a lot of variation by NOT getting the BOG down to the dirt. In plugging that kind of variation into BOG models, that was such a drastic effect on pattern and performance, that if you didn't begin with a VF measurement in your exacted intended spot for the bog, you were just throwing away front to back, or in some cases, reversing the pattern. Finally settled on what ever length for the BOG was gotten by 1) getting the wire right down on the dirt as you were going to leave and use it, and 2) pruning the DOG to 1140 kHz, and then reconnecting the wire in place to use as a BOG. There was also a formula for computing the length from the 151' DOG resonance, so people could use the MFJ meters (they don't read down that far in the BC band). The problem with that was that the 151 feet did not cover the entire BOG length, and you were ASSUMING that the remaining seventy or whatever feet was over the same kind of stuff as the 151. If the VF happens to be one of the 0.45 jobs and you use 500 feet, you can actually get a pattern reversal. That's a pretty huge variable to leave in the unknown. I spent some time digging up BOG tales. They were all over the place as to whether they worked or not. There was also a notable occurrence of assuming that regular beverage dimensions worked for BOGs, and that long BOGs would always work better than short BOGs. There was also a clear majority of reporting failure and abandoning the concept. The length you get with the 1140 kHz DOG trick was the *ONLY* length I was ever able to get to work in a BOG model that had a satisfactory pattern. Never able to get 500 feet to model anything with the possible max front to back. I am left having to assume that folks using those are simply using the BOG's ability to reject nearby noise and hear the skywave, which is there regardless of the length unless the pattern has reversed. That could be very useful in a given situation. But that property also applies to shortie BOGs as well. If a northeast BOG is done right, from our NC part of the country, an S9 station from Arkansas or Texas SHOULD be knocked way down, indicating significant front to back, and also killing a lot of QRN that comes from that direction. I have also found the BOG's local rejection quality to be severely compromised by close elevated conductors and particularly by resonant overhead conductors, fence wires, above ground power wires, ladderline feeds to other antennas. BTDT. Talking about 20 dB difference in rejection of back side power buzzes, by removing the overhead. I was able to get one of those situations to model out and the fix tracked the model. 73, Guy. _______________________________________________ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK _______________________________________________ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK _______________________________________________ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK