Roger Roger VE3CZ/ G3RBP uses one.
Regards Richard > On 8 May 2021, at 17:01, topband-requ...@contesting.com wrote: > > Send Topband mailing list submissions to > topband@contesting.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > topband-requ...@contesting.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > topband-ow...@contesting.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Topband digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Vertical Dipoles on 160 Meters (John Crovelli) > 2. Re: Vertical Dipoles on 160 Meters (Jim Brown) > 3. Re: Vertical Dipoles on 160 Meters (Richard (Rick) Karlquist) > 4. Re: Vertical Dipoles on 160 Meters (charlie carroll) > 5. Hygain hytower on 160 (WW3S) > 6. Hygain hytower on 160 (Rob Atkinson) > 7. Re: Hygain hytower on 160 (Tree) > 8. Re: Hygain hytower on 160 (Guy Olinger K2AV) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 17:31:21 +0000 > From: John Crovelli <w...@hotmail.com> > To: "topband@contesting.com" <topband@contesting.com> > Subject: Topband: Vertical Dipoles on 160 Meters > Message-ID: > > <bn8pr05mb65959f08b260ecc50bb9917689...@bn8pr05mb6595.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > For those who have limited space and are unable to lay out an effective > ground system, the vertical dipole offers a very worthwhile alternative to an > Inverted-L or low Inverted-V. > > It is relatively easy to build, install, and tune. The K2KQ article has been > followed by hundreds with success. > > Vertical dipoles on 160 meters have been in place at P40W and P40L for a > decade or more. Small footprint, vertical polarization and no ground system > were the design parameters that prevailed. > > 73, John W2GD/P40W/P44W > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 12:14:05 -0700 > From: Jim Brown <j...@audiosystemsgroup.com> > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Re: Topband: Vertical Dipoles on 160 Meters > Message-ID: > <7cf8659a-a056-9880-481a-7bdd6567d...@audiosystemsgroup.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > >> On 5/7/2021 10:31 AM, John Crovelli wrote: >> For those who have limited space and are unable to lay out an effective >> ground system, the vertical dipole offers a very worthwhile alternative to >> an Inverted-L or low Inverted-V. > > Yes, and so is the end-loading technique shown in the K2KQ design. N6BT > has used it extensively in his designs, and W6GJB and I have used it for > portable designs for county expeditions and Field Day. The Hy-Gain > AV-series and Cushcraft R-series antennas are loaded and trapped > vertical dipoles. > > VK4YB's 630m end-fed, end-loaded designs for 630m are an even more > innovative design -- I helped W6GJB tailor one of those designs to his > real estate, and Glen has worked Roger on that band. See VK4YB's qrz page. > > The key to these designs is realizing that it's current that does the > radiating, and maximizing the current in vertical section of the > antenna. I do this in NEC by studying the display of current in the View > Antenna window. > > 73, Jim K9YC > >> It is relatively easy to build, install, and tune. The K2KQ article has >> been followed by hundreds with success. >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 13:54:10 -0700 > From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <rich...@karlquist.com> > To: j...@audiosystemsgroup.com, topband@contesting.com > Subject: Re: Topband: Vertical Dipoles on 160 Meters > Message-ID: <b879325d-ef64-a6bb-5f51-7ec976eb6...@karlquist.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > >>> On 5/7/2021 10:31 AM, John Crovelli wrote: >>> For those who have limited space and are unable to lay out an >>> effective ground system, the vertical dipole offers a very worthwhile >>> alternative to an Inverted-L or low Inverted-V. > > I think of this as essentially an inverted-L with one elevated > radial ... driven at the second harmonic. It seems to me it > would work work better with 2 or 4 radials, and with 2 or 4 > top loading wires. And it can be driven with a common mode > choke at the bottom of the vertical section. > > Rick N6RK > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 18:01:35 -0400 > From: charlie carroll <k...@k1xx.com> > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Re: Topband: Vertical Dipoles on 160 Meters > Message-ID: <eec10209-5099-c8ab-1997-7b507652f...@k1xx.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > We use the K2KQ inspired vertical dipole at PJ4K for 160.? Top's at > about 135 feet and bottom at 30 feet.? We opted for this approach so > that there's no fighting the cactus to install ground-mounted radials.? > If we can ever get back to the island, we have all the pieces ready to > put up a phased pair of these antennas. > > If you decide to go with this antenna, make sure you consider effects of > the vertical supports.? We ended up de-tuning our 140-foot towers. > > 73 charlie, k1xx > >> On 5/7/2021 1:31 PM, John Crovelli wrote: >> For those who have limited space and are unable to lay out an effective >> ground system, the vertical dipole offers a very worthwhile alternative to >> an Inverted-L or low Inverted-V. >> >> It is relatively easy to build, install, and tune. The K2KQ article has >> been followed by hundreds with success. >> >> Vertical dipoles on 160 meters have been in place at P40W and P40L for a >> decade or more. Small footprint, vertical polarization and no ground system >> were the design parameters that prevailed. >> >> 73, John W2GD/P40W/P44W >> _________________ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 22:10:28 -0400 > From: WW3S <w...@zoominternet.net> > To: topBand List <topband@contesting.com> > Subject: Topband: Hygain hytower on 160 > Message-ID: <5f176187-bc41-42c2-8a06-1bbec1d99...@zoominternet.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Seems like the base loading coil lc-160q is about worthless, especially with > greater than 100 watts....anyone have direct experience with the other option > , loading wire from near the top.....any other options or mods to consider? > > Sent from my iPad > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 8 May 2021 05:11:57 -0500 > From: Rob Atkinson <ranchoro...@gmail.com> > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Topband: Hygain hytower on 160 > Message-ID: > <CALWD7Z5C7h=g-w5vMSkirQ=r5pdxuutmv+ka039_1c3pgaq...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > No personal experience but I've heard repeatedly over the years that > the inverted L kit works way better than the loading coil. This makes > sense. I think the inverted L kit consists of a trap you hang off > the top of the BX section. You probably supply the wire but on that > I'm not sure. I don't know if this kit is still being made or not but > you might be able to fabricate a trap yourself. > > Rob > K5UJ > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 8 May 2021 06:17:30 -0700 > From: Tree <t...@kkn.net> > To: Rob Atkinson <ranchoro...@gmail.com> > Cc: 160 <topband@contesting.com> > Subject: Re: Topband: Hygain hytower on 160 > Message-ID: > <cakf9hha4lxycyuczskqc-n88_ws1wk72oatsse2k4movx+k...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Another change to relate this story - used a unmodified hytower with about > 500W and after an hour - we noticed the insulator was on fire. > > I have heard of people getting a better insulator and perhaps extending the > whip some. > > N7NG used to have a trap at the top of his 80M vertical with a horizontal > wire that worked very well for him (he has since moved to Montana). > > Tree N6TR > >> On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 3:12 AM Rob Atkinson <ranchoro...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> No personal experience but I've heard repeatedly over the years that >> the inverted L kit works way better than the loading coil. This makes >> sense. I think the inverted L kit consists of a trap you hang off >> the top of the BX section. You probably supply the wire but on that >> I'm not sure. I don't know if this kit is still being made or not but >> you might be able to fabricate a trap yourself. >> >> Rob >> K5UJ >> _________________ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 8 May 2021 10:57:15 -0400 > From: Guy Olinger K2AV <k2av....@gmail.com> > To: Rob Atkinson <ranchoro...@gmail.com> > Cc: topband <topband@contesting.com> > Subject: Re: Topband: Hygain hytower on 160 > Message-ID: > <CANckpc1eL5pFs=nhb+nntzcbygp0xmo5gbayzrkuxv-_xnx...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I haven?t run a model on a hytower recently but helped one soul out of a > quandary with one a while back. Items that required attention: > > 1) Coax connection SO239 at base and its mounting device metal, etc, had to > be entirely replaced due to metallic corrosion. > > 2) Radials were awful. Needed serious work to get past the ?terrible? > rating up to ?really poor but that will have to do?. Property had fairly > severe irregular elevation and boundaries. > > 3) When 1), 2) dealt with, 160 SWR got worse because feed R wasn?t anywhere > near 50 any more. > > 4) Cheep skinny coax had to be replaced. > > 5) Owner's opinion, results clearly better but still not good. It still was > a short vertical *without* a full size, dense, uniform length and spacing > radial field. > > I don?t recall the coil being an issue, other than the SWR bandwidth was > narrowing down with repairs/improvements. > > He did try an L off the hytower top later which improved things a bit more. > But at root it was still a short 160 vertical over a necessarily poor > radial field. > > For the umpity-umpth time, for 160, the two ton elephant in the room is the > counterpole to whatever will be the aerial radiator. We whack down a > DI-pole to a monopole which now needs a substitute pole for the missing > pole, a counterpole, usually referred to as radials or counterpoise. If > that counterpole is inferior, so will be your results. > > First solve the radial/counterpoise elephant efficiently. Then do a tuning > something or other to handle the physical law that efficient shortened > antennas have reduced band width. > > Someone posted about a vertical dipole. Absent discussion about size, cost, > difficulty of construction, support, feed method, survivability in weather, > yada, yada, it DOES solve the counterpole problem. At least for as long as > it stays up. > > If all that was adequately solved by something durable off the shelf or > easily constructed, everyone would have a vertical dipole on 160. But we > all can count the number of 160 vertical dipoles around. > > There ARE a few of those on the AM broadcast band. They are all > unbelievable MONSTER antennas that make your jaw drop if you ever get to > see one in person. They DO work very well. And they occupy monster acreage > for the guy lines, etc. > > See k2av.com for one answer to a necessarily poor radial field. > > 73, Guy K2AV > > >> On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 6:12 AM Rob Atkinson <ranchoro...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> No personal experience but I've heard repeatedly over the years that >> the inverted L kit works way better than the loading coil. This makes >> sense. I think the inverted L kit consists of a trap you hang off >> the top of the BX section. You probably supply the wire but on that >> I'm not sure. I don't know if this kit is still being made or not but >> you might be able to fabricate a trap yourself. >> >> Rob >> K5UJ >> _________________ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Topband mailing list > Topband@contesting.com > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Topband Digest, Vol 221, Issue 7 > *************************************** _________________ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector