FYI & also FWIW
Surprisingly the RDF1.1 Turtle spec only talks about parsers, not writers. In 
section 2.3 the “object lists” are introduced and an example is given.
No statement/qualification however is given about the desirability of using the 
abbreviation over the non-abbreviated form (which is indeed equivalent of 
course).
I will investigate the intended view by the authors of the specs. Pure formally 
your output is conform Turtle (actually a subset of Turtle: Full Turtle without 
commas).
Still I would find it personally more logical that your parser (that DOES 
support the object lists) would be on the same level as your writer. But ok, 
maybe you have good reasons why this is not the case.

Greetings, Michel

Ps the actual text:
“As with predicates often objects are repeated with the same subject and 
predicate. The objectList 
production<https://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/#grammar-production-objectList> matches 
a series of objects separated by ',' following a predicate. This expresses a 
series of RDF Triples with the corresponding subject and predicate and each 
object allocated to one triple. Thus, the ',' symbol is used to repeat the 
subject and predicate of triples that only differ in the object RDF term.”

>From which you COULD derive: better use commas to avoid unnecessary 
>repetition. (the actual subject/predicate repetition is replaced by the short 
>comma).




Dr. ir. H.M. (Michel) Böhms
Senior Data Scientist


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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] 
On Behalf Of David Price
Sent: woensdag 12 juli 2017 17:45
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [topbraid-users] turtle support

Hi Michel,

FWIW most users who’ve ever expressed any interest wrt Turtle have been 
concerned more about how github and other diff tools work wrt Turtle files. 
That means a Turtle writer that, for example, that tries to remove 
inconsistencies in how the Turtle files are written to enable automated 
software development tools.

Anyway, hope that clarifies what the standard says is required and how Composer 
works.

Cheers,
David

UK +44 7788 561308
US +1 336 283 0606




On 12 Jul 2017, at 16:29, Bohms, H.M. (Michel) 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

Hi David,
Sorry, fully disagree.

I would expect that a full Turtle implementation would implement all features 
of turtle.
The ‘comma’-abbreviation is just a mechanism like the ;-abreviation and the 
[]-abbreviation and saves in general space and time.
Maybe not in in this specific example but in general it does (otherwise it 
wouldn’t have been a turtle  design feature after all).

The whole idea behind Turtle is providing syntactic sugar for triples. So it’s 
not about making turtle prettier, it’s about using all available turtle 
mechanisms….

A turtle implementation should be conform the formal Turtle grammar and since 
the comma-mechanism is just part of that grammer it should be supported.
(
[8]

objectList

::=

object<https://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/#grammar-production-object> (',' 
object<https://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/#grammar-production-object>)*

)

Anyway, let’s agree to disagree,
Greetings Michel


Ps a figure I made for explaining Turtle indicating the three main mechanisms 
(of which 2 are supporting by your implementation):

[cid:[email protected]]

Transforming (all 3 mechanisms combined):

a1 b1 c1.
a1 b2 c2.
a1 b2 c3.
a1 b3 c4.
c4 b4 c5.

Into:

a1 b1 c1; b2 c2,c3; b3 [c4 b4 c5].




Dr. ir. H.M. (Michel) Böhms
Senior Data Scientist



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From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Price
Sent: woensdag 12 juli 2017 17:07
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [topbraid-users] turtle support

Hi Michel,

Conforming Turtle implementations are required to read all valid forms of 
Turtle but are not required to maintain any manual formatting (or syntactic 
sugar) done in a text editor or by other Turtle writers. It’s a lot of 
not-very-usefule-coding to worry about trying to maintain that foreign 
formatting when RDF files have read from Turtle, been edited in Composer and 
are saved as Turtle. Composer users are not typically down in the weeds editing 
Turtle manually to try and make them prettier.

FWIW in your example, the way Composer wrote the file is actually more 
efficient if editing/diff’ing files as line deletes/comparisons are quicker to 
perform - i.e. “efficient” is in the eye of the beholder.

Cheers,
David

UK +44 7788 561308
US +1 336 283 0606





On 12 Jul 2017, at 15:42, Bohms, H.M. (Michel) 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

Hi Richard,
I understand (that they are equivalent) but you would expect full support of 
Turtle meaning support for all available ttl abbreviations types for the most 
efficient representation.
Otherwise you could also forget all other ttl abbreviations types and be back 
at sets of triples only… 😊.

Hope you agree….Greetings Michel




Dr. ir. H.M. (Michel) Böhms
Senior Data Scientist




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From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard Cyganiak
Sent: woensdag 12 juli 2017 16:33
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [topbraid-users] turtle support

Michel,

On 12 Jul 2017, at 14:44, Bohms, H.M. (Michel) 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

somple:Deck_1
  rdf:type somple:Deck ;
  cmo:hasDirectPart somple:Slab_1, somple:Slab_2, somple:Slab_3 ;
.

Seems always rewritten after save by tbc into:

somple:Deck_1
  rdf:type somple:Deck ;
  cmo:hasDirectPart somple:Slab_1 ;
  cmo:hasDirectPart somple:Slab_2 ;
  cmo:hasDirectPart somple:Slab_3 ;
.

Is there a special reason, or is the turtle-abbreviation (“,”) type just not 
supported?

The two snippets are equivalent. They encode the same RDF triples. The 
difference is simply that one uses more “syntactic sugar” than the other.

When a Turtle file is opened in Composer and saved again, the file will contain 
the same data, but with different “cosmetics”. Composer generally doesn’t 
provide user control over these cosmetics like whitespace handling, order, use 
of abbreviations, etc.

Best,
Richard







Thx Michel





Dr. ir. H.M. (Michel) Böhms
Senior Data Scientist





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