An excellent approach > -----Original Message----- > From: julien.robi...@free.fr > Sent: Mon, 31 Oct 2016 23:16:53 +0100 > To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org > Subject: Re: [tor-relays] Interrogated by Finnish police for alleged > idendity crimes, fraud and attempts of fraud > > Hi, > > With the 3 big exit nodes I had in France (about 30MB/s in both > direction for each of them), I got called by police a lot of time (may > be 10 times approximately ? I do not really count anymore) on > investigations about misdeed that was committed from IP addresses of my > Tor relays (95.130.9.190 and 95.130.9.89 mainly, at Digicube, not > running anymore since June, 2015). No call about the Online.net one > (62.210.206.25, now Relay only since January, 2015), which was as big as > the 2 others and Exit too, but the ISP is well known as servers and > website big provider in France so I guess they realize it's an exit node > before calling me. The "facts" were also, most of the time, fraud and > attempts of fraud but also slander one time. > > I was most of the time called as suspect because IP are related to my > name (because I was leasing those servers), as for a home connection in > their point of view (not aware that those IP are dedicated servers IP). > Then I simply explain this in appropriate terms. After some times, > depending on the agent, for new investigations I'm sometimes "heard" as > witness. And most of the time the meeting is fine. > > Each time, I explain that my servers are rented in my name, and that I > use them for volunteer participation to a free proxies and VPN network > called Tor. I then give some details and explanations about what is Tor, > who created it, what are the goals of the project (about protection of > expression in bad countries and censorship avoidance, by accessing the > same Internet that others do, pricacy protection too), and yes, the > misuses... and that these are discouraging misuse and it is not the > reason why we participate in this network (far from it !). Then I give > the IP of those servers (and one of them is the reason why they called > me). And I explain that they are computers with a very fast bandwidth, > located in datacenters (Rennes, Vitry...) that can be accessed and > configured remotely, like a remote desktop. > > When they ask the question about logs and how to find the author of the > fact, my answer is that (unfortunately in that case), Tor is designed as > it's not possible for anybody to find who is the IP address from where > the traffic originated. It's very secure for those who need to use it. > Of course I tell them that if they have suspects in the entourage of the > victim, they can check if one of them was connected to the Tor network > at the time of the "fact" but as me and others people are using Tor for > online privacy without any intention of misuse against anybody, using > Tor is not a proof of misuse and is most of the time not done for bad > intention. Of course some questioning about a suspect using Tor at the > same hour would be rightful in this particular situation, anyway (like I > was questioned). > > All time I also come with a sheet of paper explaining Tor a little bit > deeply, what are the motivation of the teams and people behind this > project, (even in front of misuses that we are, of course, not proud of > having on the Tor network, even if without the Tor network, those > misuses would have been done by another way). In France I > > Of course sometimes the agent is not very happy about the Tor Network as > the investigations is likely to fail because of the Tor Network > efficiency. When the misuse is real and obviously bad, nobody can be > happy of it ! > > In all those cases, my words are honest and true; as we shouldn't be > ashamed of participating to projects aiming to a better word and more > freedom, but shouldn't be happy of misuses, my personal preference is to > be understanding and true. I also tell them that I'm participating, with > my computers, to others scientific projects like World Community Grid > (explaining it's about cancer research and a lot of others subjects) : > It can be seen as "not related" but it is, as that's the way we are > volunteers to the Tor Network ! > > > Here's for my feedback ! It's very personal of course, I hope nobody > would copy it without feeling it :) I'm just expressing my own feeling > on those situations, if it can help everybody to better understand those > cases. > > Best regards ! > > Julien ROBIN > > > On 31/10/2016 14:25, Juuso Lapinlampi wrote: >> Putting the word out: I was interrogated by the Finnish police today for >> multiple alleged counts (15+) of identity crimes, fraud and attempts of >> fraud. The invitation letter to be interrogated was sent out on >> 2016-10-21 and received by me on 2016-10-25. Today is 2016-10-31. >> >> The police suspects me because of an "IP-address assigned to my name", >> which I can't confirm or deny to have a relation to me. As a suspect, I >> was not told what this aclaimed IP-address was on a specific date to my >> knowledge. It is only speculation if these allegations wrongly against >> me have something to do with my relation with the Tor community or >> activism about digital rights online. >> >> Pending ongoing investigation, I am not allowed by law to share more >> specific details about to the investigation. I'd be glad to reveal more >> details about the case once the investigation is over and share/hear how >> I became a suspect, once I know about it. (Note that my story is at >> least slightly opinionated.) >> >> I had a witness with me and I feel like my rights were being violated >> during the interrogation. The officer (not to be named publicly in >> respect for privacy) didn't want to allow me to write down their badge >> number by taking the badge away from me while trying to write down the >> numbers. The officer looked slightly anxious. >> >> After refusing to comment on few questions (to which I have a legal >> right as a suspect), soon after me and my belongings with me were >> searched for aclaimed "security reasons" and "making sure I'm not >> recording this interrogation (with a phone)". I'll let you decide on the >> implications on unwarranted searches and individual legal protection. >> (See supreme court decision KKO:1990:36.) >> >> I audibly and multiple times in calm manner protested to not consent to >> searches, but alas it happened against my will without being suspected >> of wrongdoing at the police station in front of my witness. I didn't >> physically resist but also didn't voluntarily help the officer. >> >> The officer asked me inappropriate questions which were not related to >> the investigation. I was asked about my previous involvement with the >> police, how much I knew about the law and unsolicited advice about how >> "it will be easier for me if I talked". I demanded the officer to write >> down every question since the beginning of interrogation to the >> interrogation minutes, including the inappropriate ones, but the officer >> refused, trying to make up a fake reason how they were "irrelevant". >> >> The officer raised their voice once or twice during the 45 minutes of >> interrogation, apparently angry that I would not "make a confession" or >> "help out and tell more" to prove innocence. Confronting the officer >> again with a simple question "am I a suspect or a witness" to confirm my >> position, I was confirmed again that I was a suspect in the case. Subtly >> reminding that "I have my rights" that should be respected, the officer >> replied among the lines of "I have my rights too" with disrespect. >> >> After the interrogation minutes did not rightfully represent what was >> actually questioned, the only sensible thing to me was to not sign the >> minutes. The officer after the officer made threatening claims about how >> I "would be going to court" over this, but didn't spend too much effort >> on trying to get my signature. >> >> Once the interrogation was concluded, the officer made an unsolicited >> comment of "gladly not seeing people like [me] often". I told that I >> would be in contact with my lawyers. >> >> I am glad that I was not detained in a cell or arrested, which in my >> opinion I can likely attribute to having a witness with me. Looking back >> at what just happened at the police station, I should have demanded a >> lawyer immediately to the interrogation after having my rights violated, >> but I'm relying on my witness for now to make a testimony if necessary. >> >> I repeat that I absolutely deny being guilty of any suspected crimes. Be >> safe out there, tor-relays@ and all. (I have legal support behind me and >> have never been particularly worried about the investigation or outcome >> of this case.) >> >> Proof of invitation letter: >> https://wubthecaptain.eu/files/legal/2016-10-21-alleged-fraud-identity-crime.jpg >> _______________________________________________ >> tor-relays mailing list >> tor-relays@lists.torproject.org >> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays > > _______________________________________________ > tor-relays mailing list > tor-relays@lists.torproject.org > https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
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