At 12:01 PM 8/10/2012 -0700, you wrote: >Tor is a relatively new and underdeveloped technology, used exclusively >by early adopters, technophiles, weirdos, and people who really really >need it. We don't advertise. We're not in stores. This is because we're >pretty much still in the prototype stage. > >As with most new and underdeveloped technologies, we're going to have >our demographics dominated by those early adopters and weirdos rather >than our target demographics. > >For example, in terms of number of users, I'd wager a top current >demographic is "Paranoid Schizophrenic". If it's not #1, it's gotta be >top 5. The more general category "Antisocial tendencies" is probably >another top 5. "People who secretly view fully legal porn" is almost >certainly up there, perhaps vying with the schizophrenics for the #1 >position. > >The early Internet (even as late as the mid-90s) was also dominated by >these same classes of people. Eventually it became usable by the >normals and the demographics shifted quite dramatically. > >We all work on Tor every day so that it sucks a little less each day, so >that those demographics *can* shift. However, right now, it's only the >extremes and certain niche elements of society who will suffer through >using it: Dissidents, journalists, law enforcement, militaries, and the >antisocial weirdos/crazies.
I don't think I follow. Who do you think would be the 'mainstream' and 'normal' users of Tor? >The Tor users page is in my mind a reflection of what our demographics >will look like as we improve our technology enough to be useful for >everyone who wants Internet privacy. We leave out the antisocial >creeps/weirdos/crazies because they are not our target userbase, and >their relative dominance right now is merely a reflection of our >relatively early development status. But you actually are working...for whom? For the american military, cops and the fascist american 'public'? I don't think those people need Tor - at all. >No offense to the weirdos, though. You guys are my people :). Really? You don't come across as very friendly to the 'weirdos'. >> > We have a FAQ (as you pointed out) to answer the obvious questions >> > about criminal usage of Tor. We're fully aware criminals can and do use >> > Tor. >> >> So why not answer those questions honestly, and not pretend that users >> are stupid? As I said, it detracts from the project's credibility. >> Anyone who installs Tor (or I2P, for that matter) and explores the >> hidden services, immediately sees the overwhelmingly illegal (mostly, >> since it depends on jurisdiction) content. Anyone who runs an exit >> node immediately sees that a sizable portion of the traffic is of >> questionable nature. [1] > >Even today, this statement is not accurate wrt exit traffic. The handful >of papers you and others have linked show that even with our current >userbase, illegal and questionable traffic takes up a small percentage >of the Tor exit traffic, unless you count all forms of pornography as >questionable. > >In fact, the paper you linked even has an "Illegal/Questionable" >category, and guess what, it's #42 at 0.15% of the traffic: >http://planete.inrialpes.fr/papers/TorTraffic-NSS10.pdf > >I don't know what you're looking for, but perhaps your own desire for >everyone to use Tor for "illegal and questionable" stuff is biasing what >*you* find? > > >-- >Mike Perry > >_______________________________________________ >tor-talk mailing list >tor-talk@lists.torproject.org >https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk _______________________________________________ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk