Noah Kantrowitz wrote:
> This shares all the same downsides as the existing SA branch. Using an ORM
> provides very little tangible benefit for non-trivial overhead general
> obfuscation. 

I'm not sure this is true.  Unproven, yes, but the more I'm using SA in 
my own projects and actually modeling the Trac schema, the more I think 
that moving to SA IS the eventual right path.


> The idea of using SA was always just to use it as a cross-DB
> API, not as an ORM as far as I remember.

Initial, perhaps, but not always

> Really the only benefit is some of
> the common operations in the model classes are autogenerated, but those are
> a) only written once per model anyway, b) easy to cut-n-paste from another
> model, and c) don't change often enough to warrant this kind of
> complication.

d) Don't have to write SQL.

This is a BIG one.  Makes it easier for those not steeped in SQL to have 
a hand at writing plugins.  When it comes down to it, writing SQL just 
plain sucks.  Writing SQL that all DBs support sucks even more.

e) Can write SQL if you want

This also includes using the SQL expression language instead of the ORM. 
  The very nice thing about SA is that it lets you use whatever layer 
you want.

f) Attribute access instead of tuples

SA's row objects are nice in that you get an object on which you use the 
column names to access the values instead of having to remember 
positions in a tuple.


Now, as far as Exilir goes, I'd say that the Declarative layer in SA 
proper is a better way forward.  Seems more future proof.  I'll admit to 
not actually having used Elixir before, though.

The main downfalls for SA are:

a) pain of converting everything.  Internals aren't so bad, but this 
will break all plugins that use SQL.  We've just broken most of them 
with 0.11, breaking them again would be rough.

b) While I think SA will be a positive all around, I do understand 
Noah's concerns and do feel that SA needs to be proven first.  This is 
no small undertaking in and of itself.


If there are those that do have interest and motivation to see SA 
integrated, catch Jeroen (asmodai) on IRC or via mail and see what the 
status of the SA branch is.

-John

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Trac 
Development" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/trac-dev?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Reply via email to