On Apr 7, 2010, at 3:36 AM, Christian Boos wrote:
On 3/23/2010 12:43 AM, Greg Troxel wrote:
Christian Boos<[email protected]> writes:
On 3/22/2010 2:45 PM, W. Martin Borgert wrote:
Quoting "Christian Boos"<[email protected]>:
We're getting quite close to being able to release a beta of
0.12. While there are still a few important tickets to be finished
first (#9060 for example), we're really getting there.
AFAIK, 0.12 needs Genshi> 0.5.1[1], but 0.6 is not yet
released[2].
For Debian (and other distribution as well, I assume) it would be
nice to have a Genshi release before Trac RCs.
Yes, it would be nice.
Are there any plans to synchronise Genshi 0.6 and Trac 0.12
releases? Thanks in advance!
There's no plan, only hope ;-)
More seriously, I'm not really at ease with the fact that either
Genshi and Babel are more or less on life support, since
Christopher
has switched to other interests. Pedro Algarvio seems our best
chance
here ;-) Pedro?
Related:
- http://genshi.edgewall.org/ticket/369
- http://babel.edgewall.org/ticket/212
Speaking as someone using trac seriously, it seems scary to be
talking
about a 0.12 release that depends on unreleased versions of other
tools.
I understand and share your concerns.
If that's really the case, then I'd say the other tools need to be
encouraged/helped to get to release or forked and released before
0.12
has an rc.
We have considered that. It looks like we're going to have a Babel
0.9.5 really soon (I see the packages on ftp.edgewall.org as I'm
writing this), and perhaps a Genshi 0.6 release at some later point
(keep finger crossed).
The fact remains that those libraries are currently strong
dependencies for Trac (Genshi even more so than Babel), and neither
has currently the level of maintenance we were used to have, every
sign indicates this trend won't change. I've also stopped to hope
there will be any drastic performance improvement, and while there
has been some improvements last year (1), I rather feel that this
means that all that could be realistically done has now been done on
this topic. Of course, theoretically someone could step up anytime
and bring in a radically new idea and dramatically increase
performance, but that's precisely what I've been hoping for since
the last 4 years. While there has been such attempts, made by bright
minds, none really succeeded.
So don't get me wrong, I actually like Genshi, I was really pleased
to ditch the ugly and hard to maintain Clearsilver templates and
enthusiastically converted most of the Trac templates to it. I also
helped to fix (easy) Genshi issues during the early stage of its
development, but was always intimidated by its complexity. I still
enjoy very much *using* Genshi from a developer perspective, but for
the reasons exposed above, from the point of view of Trac
maintenance and its future evolution, we really have a situation to
address, lots of users are still hesitant to move away from Trac
*0.10* because of performance concerns (Genshi is perhaps not the
only factor at play there, but it's an important one).
It seems however that there could be a way forward, by considering
once again a switch of the templating engine. This time it would be
in favor of Jinja2 (2), which seems to have a great momentum and
have the adequate capabilities and speed we need. In addition, its
main developer is also a long time Trac supporter and has shown
interest in supporting us for the switch (hello Armin!).
There has been some informal discussions on this topic on the #trac
IRC channel, so the logical next step is to discuss it more formally
here on Trac-dev. To me at least, the status quo is not really an
option. I'm aware this will cause some inconvenience, especially for
the plugins that currently depend on stream filters. However this
will be mitigated by the fact that we can continue to support
Genshi, and migrate to Jinja2 only gradually, starting with the time
critical parts (like the changeset view, the browser view and the
timeline).
While I agree that this is needed, we should be clear about the
impact; partially supporting Genshi doesn''t really mitigate not
support stream filters, since Genshi or not we can't filter a non-
Genshi and the whole point of stream filters is to allow UI changes on
other peoples' pages. The other question is how to support themes on
the converted pages, and I have no good answer for that.
--Noah
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