On 3/6/13, Leho Kraav <[email protected]> wrote: [...] > On 05.03.2013 23:47, Olemis Lang wrote: >> >> I'd advocate using the second . Let's just choose the ORM ;) >> >>> My spidey sense is telling me world doesn't really need yet another >>> web framework. I think it would make (at least for business) sense >>> to port the modules on top of bigger frameworks. >>> >> >> -1 The foundations of Trac are rock solid. > > I don't doubt this. My only concern is the size of a general purpose > plugin ecosystem around Trac today *and in foreseeable future*. Compared > to WordPress, which is what I'm working with currently day to day, we're > talking a drop in a bucket. And WP started as a simple blog engine, just > like Trac started as a simple issue tracker. Today WP a really solid > general purpose app platform with *massive* code drop-in and reuse > options via https://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/ (23,824 plugins, > 422,393,833 downloads, and counting) + themes + countless commercial > plugin product offers. >
those are facts ... why bother /me saying *agreed* [...] > > To me, all this DAL or no-DAL, Django or no-Django etc is connected this > way. At the very basic level, Trac does some very important things for > me very well. Which is also probably why we're all sitting here and > don't completely move on to something else. > To me I see the subject from a more *practical* perspective ... > So in my case, it either means separate interconnected systems (leave > Trac as it is, build other stuff in some other framework, connect via > RPC or whatever) or writing a looott of new Trac-stuff from scratch. ... which is , in either case we'll need to improve DB code ... say DBAL ... so we better start doing so tomorrow so that we can see how it goes after one ? two ? three ? ... months . > Trac shopping cart, anybody? > Real trac-hacks marketplace, anybody? IMHO that's another debate ... and does not depend *only* on the good faith of developers doing something and people tracking but consumers and marketing , and ... I'm just saying it's another subject . ;) > Just > a few examples that interest me on top of the issue tracking awesomeness > we have today :) > Let's see if you have a WSGI web app doing all that then what stops you from embedding inside Trac ? What prevents somebody to tightly integrate Trac and e.g. Django at a very low level thus providing seamless integration , deployment and management ? I know the first part of the answer : the limitations of Trac database layer . Let's fix it , and focus on the rest once that will be done . Summarizing , IMO there many approaches to integrate two systems and make them interoperate . [...] > > It just feels like we're all going to grow grey and old, before anything > reasonable could be achieved going in the "write new implementations of > world on top of Trac-as-web-framework" direction. ... but maybe not on the direction of «improve Trac integration with established & popular technologies» > Maybe that's overly > pessimistic, but software is hard (ironic eh) so the negative scenario > is always significantly more likely. > you definitely have a point . What shall we do ? I have the feeling that you'll always end up questioning DB and SQL . I'd rather say , let's do that and find ways afterwards to either : 1. make current Trac a better Trac 2. build something else from scratch ... well ... from DBAL layer up ;) [...] > Maybe there would be more if there was more of a feel of being able to > build a business on Trac? > > But there's no wide choice or business feel because... *maybe* partly > because there's no DAL, to start. +1 ... not exactly because of that solely reason , but because of what it implies : a strong limitation to get a lot of things done , leaving some deployments out of the equation . [...] -- Regards, Olemis. Apache™ Bloodhound contributor http://issues.apache.org/bloodhound Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Trac Development" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-dev?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
