WELCOME TO IWPR’S ICTY - TRIBUNAL UPDATE No. 564, August 18, 2008

CONFLICT OF INTEREST CONCERNS HIT KARADZIC TRIAL  Observers fear Judge Orie’s 
involvement in past cases could cause problems if he presides over Karadzic 
trial.  By Edina Becirevic in Sarajevo

KARADZIC’S SECRET LIFE DRAWS THE TOURISTS  Belgrade travel agent offers tourist 
trip around sites frequented by former top war crimes fugitive.  By Iva 
Martinovic in Belgrade

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CONFLICT OF INTEREST CONCERNS HIT KARADZIC TRIAL

Observers fear Judge Orie’s involvement in past cases could cause problems if 
he presides over Karadzic trial.

By Edina Becirevic in Sarajevo

The possibility of Judge Alphonse Orie presiding over the trial of former 
Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic has caused a stir in the Balkans and the 
legal community, with concern focused on potential conflicts of interest as a 
result of his prior involvement in several high-profile cases at the tribunal.

While Judge Orie has not been officially assigned to the Karadzic case – 
arguably one of the most significant trials in the annals of international 
justice – his appointment as pre-trial presiding judge makes this highly 
probable. 

In legal terms, a conflict of interest refers to a situation when a lawyer or 
judge has competing professional or personal obligations or interests that make 
it hard to fulfill his or her duties fairly. 

As one of the most experienced judges at the tribunal, Judge Orie will have an 
intricate knowledge of events which took place during the Balkans wars, as well 
as of previous tribunal jurisprudence. However, some observers say that his 
involvement in other trials could place him in a difficult position.

Twelve years ago, the judge acted as co-counsel in the defence team of Dusko 
Tadic, the first Bosnian Serb indicted for war crimes by the Hague court, who 
was convicted of war crimes and crimes against humanity and jailed for 20 
years. He was also presiding judge in the case of former Bosnian Serb 
parliamentary speaker and close ally of Karadzic Momcilo Krajisnik, who was 
found guilty of crimes against humanity, but acquitted of genocide charges. In 
2006, Krajisnik was sentenced to 27 years in prison. 

Judge Orie’s involvement in other cases means he should not preside over the 
Karadzic case, according to Fadila Memisevic from the Sarajevo-based section of 
human rights organisation Society for Threatened Peoples.

She said that statements Orie made in earlier cases indicate that a possible 
conflict of interest could emerge during the Karadzic trial.

“If we carefully read the decision in the Krajisnik case, it seems that Judge 
Orie agreed with Serb experts and witnesses who claimed that what happened in 
Bosnia was just a civil war – unplanned and impossible to control – which was 
also the view taken by the Tadic defence,” Memisevic told IWPR.

Karadzic prosecutors are expected to argue the opposite – that mass killings, 
persecution and deportation of non-Serbs from large swathes of Bosnia between 
1992-95 were all part of a plan – the aim of which was to secure control of 
those areas which had been proclaimed part of the Bosnian Serb republic.

“What worries me most is that Judge Orie’s take on the events in Bosnia [as 
outlined in the Krajisnik judgement] could influence his judgement in the 
Karadzic case,” she added.

Amor Masovic of the Bosnian Missing Persons Committee had concerns about Orie 
having previously defended Tadic.

“Dusko Tadic was a soldier of the army whose superior commander was Karadzic. 
Being the defence lawyer of that soldier and then being a judge in a case 
against his commander is, to put it mildly, very problematic from the point of 
view of justice,” she said. 

A Bosnian lawyer, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, told IWPR that a 
judge with previous involvement as a defence lawyer in a related trial would 
never be appointed to preside a case in a Bosnian war crimes court.

He said the perception that there could be a conflict of interest should be 
enough to prompt Orie to stand down.

“I think it is up to Judge Orie to recognise the importance of Karadzic case 
and step down, because too many people believe he might have some prejudice in 
this trial,” said the lawyer.

Some legal experts outside the region have similar concerns.

Goran Sluiter, a professor of international criminal law at the University of 
Amsterdam, points out that the Krajisnik judgement states that Karadzic was 
part of a criminal conspiracy with his former colleague, Krajisnik.

“Momcilo Krajisnik was a member of the Bosnian Serb leadership, together with 
Karadzic. The trial chamber led by Judge Orie has already established that 
Krajisnik and Karadzic were members of a ‘joint criminal enterprise’, which 
served as the basis for the conviction of Mr Krajisnik, ” told IWPR.

Sluiter notes the many similiarities between the two Bosnian Serb politicians’ 
indictments and argues that findings in the Krajisnik judgement seem to 
implicate Karadzic.

“Reading the Krajisnik judgement, one notices numerous highly incriminating 
findings concerning Karadzic,” he said.

“Basically, it appears that by considering Karadzic as a member of this joint 
criminal enterprise, the trial chamber convicted not only Krajisnik, but 
Karadzic as well.”

Dr Carole Hodge, tribunal expert and author of Britain and the Balkans, said 
she felt uneasy about Judge Orie presiding over the Karadzic trial – 
particularly as, in her view, “a very narrow definition of genocide was 
adopted” in the Krajisnik judgement.

Judges in the Krajisnik case found that while there was evidence that crimes 
committed in Bosnia constituted the actus reus, or criminal act, of genocide, 
they did not establish that the accused possessed mens rea, or genocidal 
intent, which is needed to prove the charge.

While Hodge noted that in strict legal terms it could be argued that there 
would be no conflict of profesional and personal interests for Orie, she said 
given the gravity of the Karadzic trial – and its wide-reaching implications in 
the region and for international law – it would be in the interests of justice 
to select judges who have no previous involvement in related cases.

Professor of international law and director of Transnational Law Institute at 
Washington and Lee University, Mark Drumble, said that if Judge Orie were to 
preside over the trial, “the competing history of events that was raised in 
Tadic's defence might raise the spectre of conflict of interests, especially if 
that same general evidence were tendered against Karadzic.

“That said, it's entirely up to the parties to make an objection on this issue, 
else the discussion is just theoretical”.

Spokesperson for the tribunal Nerma Jelacic said that the court’s rules allow 
any party who might have some concerns with regard to possible judicial 
prejudice or conflict of interests to raise them before the tribunal’s judges.

According to tribunal rules, “A judge may not sit on a trial or appeal in any 
case in which…the judge has or has had any association which might affect his 
or her impartiality. The judge shall in any such circumstance withdraw, and the 
president shall assign another judge to the case.”

According to Sir Geoffrey Nice, British lawyer and former prosecutor in the 
case against ex-Yugoslav president Slobodan Milosevic, the fact that Judge Orie 
acted as defence counsel in the Tadic case should not mean there will be a 
conflict of interest if he presides over the Karadzic trial.

“Advocates and judges are expected to act objectively and dispassionately, on 
the basis of instructions given by a defendant [if defending as an advocate] or 
on the basis of evidence [if making decisions as a judge],” he said.

He added that in theory, Judge Orie’s findings in the Krajisnik case – which 
identified Karadzic as a member of a joint criminal enterprise – should not 
present a problem either.

“His having already made a factual decision as a judge in another case that 
there was a joint criminal enterprise involving Karadzic of the same kind as 
charged in this indictment should create no technical difficulty, as a judge 
should be able to put out of her or his mind the evidence received and 
decisions made in an earlier trial,” he said. 

However, he added that in a trial like that of Karadzic where the issue is “so 
serious and substantial”, this might be difficult in practice.

“It might be thought to be asking the impossible of a judge to decide the issue 
of Karadzic's participation in a [joint criminal enterprise] on the evidence in 
this trial without regard to the finding made in the previous trial – where 
Karadzic was not present to argue his position,” he said.

“This could found an argument to have Orie recuse [disqualify] himself from the 
Karadzic trial,” he said, adding that the issue should be dealt with fully by 
the tribunal.

“Of course, if the prosecution is able to get the previous conviction [of 
Krajisnik] and the previous finding of a [joint criminal enterprise] involving 
Karadzic into evidence within the tribunal's rules then the problem could be 
overcome.

“But the decisions about admitting that conviction on that basis would rest 
with Orie and his fellow judges so the same or similar problems of prejudice or 
pre-judgement would arise.”

It would clearly be easier to meet these possible problems by having the 
Karadzic case presided over by a judge who does not have these difficulties to 
face, concluded Nice.

Jelacic defended the choice of Judge Orie as pre-trial judge.

“Like all other judges, [Judge Orie’s] post was approved by the UN General 
Assembly,” she said. “[He] is one of the most experienced and well respected 
judges of this
tribunal.”

Edina Becirevic is senior lecturer at the University of Sarajevo’s Faculty of 
Criminal Justice Sciences.


KARADZIC’S SECRET LIFE DRAWS THE TOURISTS

Belgrade travel agent offers tourist trip around sites frequented by former top 
war crimes fugitive.

By Iva Martinovic in Belgrade

Until recently, a small pub named the Mad House in the New Belgrade suburb of 
the city was known only to a few people, mainly residents of nearby concrete 
tower blocks typical of post-World-War-Two architecture in the former 
Yugoslavia. 

But that changed after one of its regulars, who happened to be one of the most 
wanted men in Europe, was arrested last month. 

The capture of the former Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic – who it is 
claimed often drank in the pub – has suddenly placed the Mad House in the 
spotlight. 

These days, crowds flock to the bar, now included on a Belgrade sightseeing 
tour – called Following Karadzic’s Footsteps – which includes places where 
Karadzic lived and socialised while he hid from justice under a false identity. 

According to the Serbian authorities, Karadzic was captured on July 21 in an 
undisclosed location in a Belgrade suburb. The accused, however, claims he was 
detained three days before, in a bus taking him to a vacation spot outside the 
city.

Before he was arrested, Karadzic spent several years disguised as long-haired, 
bearded alternative health guru Dragan Dabic, and moved freely throughout 
Serbia, right under the nose of the local authorities.

It was as Dragan Dabic that Karadzic allegedly frequented the Mad House. 

A regular client of the pub who wished to remain anonymous said that most 
tourists who come here order Karadzic’s favourite red wine Medvedja krv – 
Bear’s Blood – and some even ask to have it served in the glass he used.

“I don’t think there is a particular glass he used. It is a trick used by the 
pub’s owners to cash in on Karadzic,” he said.

Above the table at which the owners claim Karadzic regularly sat is a photo of 
him along with Bosnian Serb general and war crimes fugitive Ratko Mladic. Next 
to that hangs a picture of the late Yugoslav president Slobodan Milosevic. The 
photos have apparently hung in the same place for the last ten years.

Tourists can also visit a bakery and a pancake house in which Karadzic 
reportedly ate; see his home in Block 45, a district of concrete tower blocks; 
and hop on a bus on the same route as the one on which he was allegedly 
arrested.

Tanja Bogdanov, director of Belgrade tourist agency Vekol Tours which organises 
this tour, says the addition to the regular sightseeing trip around Belgrade 
has been a great success. 

She stresses that the tour has no political connotations whatsoever. 

“It is important to say that our guides are not allowed to say anything while 
taking the tourists through Block 45 in New Belgrade. We don't want to express 
any political opinions,” she said. 

Bogdanov explains that was made at the request of their foreign partners and 
has been specially arranged to cater for foreign travellers.

“I am a tourist worker, and [the sites are] an attraction,” she explained.

Judging by the droves of people signing up for this tour, it seems that many 
are fascinated with Karadzic’s ability to avoid arrest for so long.

However, some in the region find this morbid interest in the war crimes suspect 
distasteful. 

“It is sad that tourist packages celebrating the real great people of this 
country do not exist, but we have a Belgrade tour dedicated to Radovan 
Karadzic,” said expert on Serbian culture Milena Sesic Dragicevic.

Dragicevic said that people should set aside their pre-occupation with 
Karadzic, and instead face up to the atrocities committed during the Bosnian 
war.

“On the surface, this may seem like a smart business move, but it actually 
shows the real depth of a moral and ethical crisis in our society. Everyone now 
talks about Radovan Karadzic, aka Dragan Dabic, but people in Serbia still do 
not talk about Srebrenica,” she added.

Prominent Belgrade-based movie director Gorcin Stojanovic agrees.

“A tour named Following Karadzic’s Footsteps should actually be organised in 
Bosnia, and it should include all places where horrible war crimes were 
committed, of which Karadzic has been accused,” he said. “That tour would be 
something.”

Iva Martinovic is an RFE reporter and IWPR contributor in Belgrade.

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