WELCOME TO IWPR’S ICTY - TRIBUNAL UPDATE No. 579, November 28, 2008

TRANSCRIPTS OF “MILOSEVIC CONVERSATIONS” AUCTIONED  Controversial documents are 
sold on Serbian internet auction site.  By Zoran Glavonjic in Belgrade

COURTSIDE:

COURT HEARS OF ALLEGED BID TO DISCREDIT SESELJ  Witness says the late Zoran 
Djindjic instructed him to give statement against accused to tribunal 
prosecutors.  By Simon Jennings in The Hague

WITNESS SAYS BELGRADE SENT ARMY TO SARAJEVO  He claims special unit came to 
capital to transport bodies of dead Yugoslav army soldiers home.  By Rachel 
Irwin in The Hague

GOTOVINA LINK TO MILITARY POLICE EXAMINED  Defence contest report by expert 
witness that general was in charge of force supposed to act on reports of 
atrocities.  By Katharina Goetze in London

BRIEFLY NOTED:

HAGUE PROSECUTOR REPORTEDLY SET TO PRAISE BELGRADE  Belgrade media say leaked 
report commends Serbia for “substantial progress in cooperation” with tribunal. 
 By Aleksandar Roknic in Belgrade

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TRANSCRIPTS OF “MILOSEVIC CONVERSATIONS” AUCTIONED

Controversial documents are sold on Serbian internet auction site.

By Zoran Glavonjic in Belgrade

Transcripts of phone calls allegedly made by late Serbian president Slobodan 
Milosevic were sold in an internet auction for around 200 euro this month, 
despite questions over their authenticity.

The phone conversations appear to have been recorded between 1995 and 1997, and 
if genuine, include accounts of conversations between Milosevic and his circle, 
as well as with world leaders.

The transcripts were offered on Serbian website Limundo with a starting price 
of 500 dinars (about six euro) from a seller identified as Aleksandra Muric. 
The seller, who received over 50 offers in the few days of the auction, was 
reluctant to talk to journalists.

The seller was not willing to tell journalists how she came to be in possession 
of the transcripts. 

All she would say is that they were of authentic phone conversations recorded 
by the Croatian intelligence services while Milosevic was staying in his 
hunting lodge in the town of Karadjordjevo, close to the Croatian border. 

>From the end of 1995 to May 1998, the Croats reportedly tapped the phone of 
>Milosevic, recording more than 700 telephone conversations that he made during 
>his stay in the northern Serbian town. He was apparently unaware that all of 
>his phone conversations were being recorded.

In 2002, alleged excerpts of these were sensationally revealed in Zagreb weekly 
Globus. The day they were published, Croatia's Office for National Security 
demanded an investigation into how the tapes were leaked and who removed the 
“top secret” tag from the material.

(More details on the transcripts can be found in IWPR report from February 
2002, Milosevic’s Personality Disorder –
http://www.iwpr.net/index.php?apc_state=hen&s=o&o=p=bcr&l=EN&s=f&o=250605.)

Jelena Smiljkovic, administrator of the Limundo website on which the latest 
documents were sold, said that significant numbers of people expressed interest 
in them. 

“People wanted to see what this was about,” she said.

One of the transcripts was apparently of Milosevic's conversation with Serbian 
officials in which he gave clear instructions on how they should act against 
certain opposition figures in Serbia. Smiljkovic said that while she had not 
checked their authenticity, she believed them to be genuine copies of the 
original documents.

Milos Vasic, a reporter with Belgrade weekly Vreme, which has already published 
parts of the leaked Karadjordjevo conversations, also told IWPR he believed 
this to be the case.

He said that despite warnings issued by his security advisers, Milosevic 
regularly used an unprotected phone line in the lodge when talking to his 
associates and family members. According to Vasic, that was not very smart, 
since Karadjordjevo is just 15 kilometres from the Croatian border, where a 
station with a high-tech US-made device for intercepting phone calls was set up 
by the Croatian secret services. 

“Of course, they intercepted and recorded all Milosevic’s phone conversations. 
I had an opportunity to hear several of those recordings and the audio quality 
was perfect,” said Vasic, who did not reveal how he came into possession of 
these. 

“It’s quite possible that one of the persons manning that station kept a copy 
of these conversations for himself with the intention of selling them one day. 
I believe the transcripts that were auctioned are authentic,” he said.

Among those people said to be featured in the recently sold documents are 
members of Milosevic’s family, and his party colleagues Milan Milutinovic, 
Goran Milinovic, Zoran Lilic, Zivadin Jovanovic and Uros Suvakovic. 

Hadzi Dragan Antic, former editor of the important pro-Milosevic daily Politika 
and a close friend of the Milosevic family, who apparently featured in a 
transcript, was dismissive of them.

“I’m not worried. As far as I'm concerned, they can publish it all,” he told 
IWPR.

“We don’t even know whether the transcripts are authentic, although, 
personally, I have no problem with that. I just don’t understand what the 
purpose of auctioning these transcripts was.”

Prominent Belgrade lawyer Rajko Danilovic said the contents of the transcripts 
– with titles such as “Troubles over Radovan Karadzic”, “Serbs are not Kurds”, 
and “Plot against Serbia” – did not interest him at all.
 
“That is not even history any more, nobody's interested in that. These 
transcripts have been so over-used that they’ve lost all their value and are 
now being sold for peanuts,” he said.

Zoran Glavonjic is an RFE reporter and IWPR contributor in Belgrade.


COURTSIDE:

COURT HEARS OF ALLEGED BID TO DISCREDIT SESELJ

Witness says the late Zoran Djindjic instructed him to give statement against 
accused to tribunal prosecutors.

By Simon Jennings in The Hague

A witness testified that he gave a false statement to Hague tribunal 
investigators after he was told by then Serbian prime minister Zoran Djindjic 
to undermine Vojislav Seselj politically.

Aleksandar Stefanovic told the Hague tribunal this week that Djindjic told him 
to compromise the leader of the Serbian Radical Party, SRS, by giving a 
statement to the Office of the Prosecution, OTP, in 2003.

“[Djindjic] said go and discredit him politically,” former SRS member 
Stefanovic told judges via video link from the OTP, premises in Belgrade. 

“That was a task assigned to me that I should say something bad about 
[Seselj].” 

Seselj is charged with war crimes and crimes against humanity for murders, 
persecutions and torture carried out between August 1991 and September 1993 in 
an effort to expel the non-Serb population from parts of Croatia and Bosnia. 

According to the indictment, Seselj’s bid to create a “Greater Serbia” was part 
of a joint criminal enterprise which involved senior figures in the Serbian 
regime, including late president Slobodan Milosevic. 

But Stefanovic – who helped set up the SRS in the early 1990s and served as its 
secretary-general before parting company with Seselj in 1996 – this week 
described the defendant as “a very decent man”, telling judges that he “did not 
commit any crimes”.

Stefanovic came to testify following a summons by judges to appear as a witness 
before the court. 

He explained how he was allegedly approached by Djindjic, who came to power in 
January 2001 and was assassinated in Belgrade two years later. 

“[Djindjic] kept saying the Serbian Radical Party was upsetting the fledgling 
democracy in Serbia,” said Stefanovic, adding that the order to give a 
statement to undermine Seselj had also come from then chief prosecutor Carla 
Del Ponte.

He said that he was assured by both Djindjic and Del Ponte that he would never 
have to testify in The Hague itself so as not to threaten his own political 
career. 

Seselj has claimed previously that his Hague trial is politically motivated, 
basing his argument on an extract from a book published by Del Ponte in April 
this year. This describes how in February 2003, Djindjic reportedly told the 
former chief prosecutor to take Seselj to The Hague and not allow him to 
return. 

However, prosecutors have shown that the indictment against Seselj – which is 
dated February 14, 2003 – was confirmed at the tribunal before any such 
conversation took place. 

Stefanovic said this week that he knew that Seselj was wanted in The Hague as 
far back as 2002. 

The witness also claimed under oath that he disagreed with much of the 
statement he gave in February 2003 and confirmed in 2006. 

This had supported many of the prosecution’s allegations, in particular that 
the SRS had started recruiting volunteers in May 1991 in order to send them to 
the front line on behalf of the Belgrade-controlled Yugoslav army, JNA. 

The prosecution alleges that, as leader of the SRS, Seselj actively recruited 
volunteers who went on to commit the persecutions and killings of non-Serbs 
with which he is now charged. 

The witness had also described Seselj as a greedy man who was more interested 
in money than politics or even his own family. However, in his testimony this 
week, Stefanovic went back on those allegations.

“There was no recruitment [of volunteers] by the Serbian Radical Party and I 
say that with full responsibility,” he said.

Stefanovic also said this week that the SRS war staff was in fact a 
“humanitarian organisation” which helped refugees caught up in the war.

“It was called the war staff, but its function was not that,” he said. “It was 
to feed people, to lodge people.” 

The prosecution alleges that the volunteers viewed Seselj as their “supreme 
commander” and that it was under his direction that they fought to extend 
Serbian territory into Croatia and Bosnia and committed crimes while doing so. 

However, Stefanovic said the SRS was only assisting volunteers who wanted to 
help fellow Serbs on the front line.  

“Seselj did not influence anybody and prevail upon them to go to the front,” he 
told judges.

“The party would transport these people to the JNA barracks. The party’s role 
over them probably ceased at that point.

“[Volunteers] were mostly under the control of the army.”  

The witness also said that the volunteers did not commit any crimes.

During Seselj’s cross-examination, Stefanovic further contradicted his original 
statements. 

Stefanovic denied that as president of the SRS, Seselj was motivated by money. 
“I always said how reticent you were and how you did not like spending money,” 
he said.

After these apparent contradictions, Judge Jean-Claude Antonetti warned the 
witness that he could be charged with perjury if he was not telling the truth. 

The trial has already seen one witness convicted of contempt of court for 
refusing to testify. Prosecutors have also tried to bring contempt proceedings 
against Seselj for allegedly revealing the names of protected witnesses – a 
charge the accused rejects.  

Stefanovic went on to deny that Seselj had excellent relations with Slobodan 
Milosevic.

The prosecution alleges that Seselj cooperated with Milosevic from August 1991, 
but Stefanovic said he thought Seselj only met Milosevic for the first time in 
April 1992. 

Asked by Judge Antonetti to be more specific, Stefanovic referred to his own 
meeting with Milosevic in June 1992 and said Seselj had already met him 
“several months before”.   

Not for the first time during the trial, Seselj sought to distance himself from 
Milosevic, claiming that he had been in prison three times under his presidency.

Although judges were undecided as to whether to admit Stefanovic’s original 
statement into evidence this week, they asked for it to be filed by the court 
pending their decision at the end of the trial. 

Simon Jennings is an IWPR reporter in The Hague.


WITNESS SAYS BELGRADE SENT ARMY TO SARAJEVO

He claims special unit came to capital to transport bodies of dead Yugoslav 
army soldiers home.

By Rachel Irwin in The Hague

A former senior officer in the Yugoslav Army, VJ, testified this week that 
orders sending him to Sarajevo during the Bosnian war could only have come from 
the defendant, ex-Yugoslav army chief Momcilo Perisic.

The witness, General Borivoje Tesic, told the Hague tribunal that his unit had 
pushed into a suburb of Sarajevo in December 1993 following orders passed on 
from his commander Miodrag Panic.

After wondering aloud whether Panic would have had the authority to send VJ 
troops into independent Bosnia, prosecutor Ann Sutherland asked Tesic 
specifically who would have issued the original order.

“I suppose it would have come from the general staff,” replied Tesic.

“And who was the highest-ranking officer?” asked Sutherland.

“The chief of the general staff was General Perisic,” said the witness.

Tesic’s testimony supported the prosecution’s assertion that the VJ – headed by 
Perisic –was active in Sarajevo during the 44-month siege of the city. 

Prosecutors allege that the accused secretly provided officers, weapons, fuel 
and logistical assistance to Bosnian Serb forces during relentless shelling and 
sniper attacks that killed thousands of civilians.

Perisic, head of the VJ from 1993 to 1998, is charged with 13 counts of crimes 
against humanity and violations of the laws of war, including the aiding and 
abetting of murder and inhumane attacks against civilians from 1993 to 1995 
during the siege of Sarajevo and shelling of Zagreb, and in the 1995 Srebrenica 
massacre.

According to the indictment, Perisic allegedly acted in secret, since VJ 
military involvement in the Bosnian and Croatian conflicts was in breach of 
United Nations Security Council resolutions, and because “such assistance was 
being used in the commission of crimes” on civilians. 

The defendant is also accused of setting up special personnel centres “to 
disguise the provision and payment” of VJ officers stationed in Bosnia and 
Croatia.

Tesic was an operations officer in the VJ Guards Brigade special unit at the 
end of 1993, when Sarajevo was under siege by the Bosnian Serbs. 

He told the Hague tribunal that the purpose of the December 30, 1993, mission 
to the Sarajevo suburb of Vogosca was to “help pull out the 72nd special 
brigade” of the VJ from the area and transport eight dead soldiers back to 
Belgrade.

The prosecutor questioned Tesic about the “war diary” kept by the Guards 
Brigade and any contact the unit had with VJ headquarters in Belgrade during 
the Vogosca mission.

“We sent daily reports [to Belgrade] in the morning hours and evening hours,” 
said Tesic. 

He added that the unit was “duty bound” to record all operations “minute by 
minute” in the war diary, and that he contributed to the documentation himself.

“Was it protocol for this information to be passed further up the chain of 
command?” asked Sutherland.

“I suppose so, yes,” said Tesic, who appeared calm and solemn during 
questioning.

In the course of his testimony, he also confirmed the existence of snipers in 
his unit at the time of the Vogosca mission, and said that his unit probably 
trained them.

Sutherland wondered if it was normal for a short mission to employ 120 men and 
an abundance of heavy, armoured equipment.

“We found [the tanks] there [in Vogosca],” answered Tesic. “The rest of the 
weaponry was normally in possession of the army.”

He also said that all of the VJ soldiers wore their own uniforms during the 
mission, and claimed he never heard of any orders to the contrary.

“Were you ordered to remove the insignia of the VJ?” asked Sutherland.

“I don’t know,” replied Tesic. “I don’t remember if I even wore insignia.”

Nearly all of the witness’s testimony – for the prosecution and defence – was 
given in closed session, due to the confidential nature of the various 
documents discussed. 

The trial continues next week.

Rachel Irwin is an IWPR reporter in The Hague.


GOTOVINA LINK TO MILITARY POLICE EXAMINED

Defence contest report by expert witness that general was in charge of force 
supposed to act on reports of atrocities.

By Katharina Goetze in London

Lawyers for Ante Gotovina this week denied that military police tasked with 
preventing and investigating war crimes were under the general’s command during 
a Croatian military offensive in the summer of 1995.

Defence counsel Luka Misetic was contesting a report written by Belgian 
military expert Reynaud Theunens which concluded that Gotovina was in charge of 
military police units that were supposed to act on reports of atrocities.

Prosecutors are trying to show that the accused failed to identify and punish 
the perpetrators of war crimes committed during Operation Storm.

Gotovina commanded the Split Military District of the Croatian Army, HV, during 
the operation, which was launched by Croatia to take back the Serb-held Krajina 
region, and during which up to 200,000 Serbs were allegedly forced to flee.

He is charged along with two other former senior generals, Ivan Cermak and 
Mladen Markac, with orchestrating the permanent removal of Serbs from Croatia 
between July and September 1995.

The indictment accuses the three men of presiding over “deportation and 
forcible transfer, destruction and burning of Serb homes and businesses, 
plunder and looting of public or private Serb property; murder [and] other 
inhumane acts”.

According to the prosecution, Croatia's right to reintegrate Krajina within its 
internationally recognised borders is not disputed. But prosecutors condemn the 
tactics used which they have alleged left behind a “scarred wasteland of 
destroyed villages and homes”.

In their cross-examination of Theunens this week, Gotovina’s lawyer produced a 
document dated August 16 1995 to demonstrate that the military police were 
under the command of military police chief Mate Lausic, rather than Gotovina.

The document ordered that military police units should report to the police 
administration overseen by Lausic, rather than the district command headed by 
the accused.

Yet Theunens replied that this was an irregular situation in which a “special 
arrangement” had been made, and maintained that it did not affect the formal 
chain of command.

When asked who commanded the 72nd Military Police Battalion, he said it was 
subordinate to both Gotovina and Lausic. However, he also emphasised that it 
was a unit of the Split Military District, which was commanded by Gotovina. 

Theunens went on to explain that Gotovina was in control of the “operational 
chain” of command and gave orders to the military police. Lausic, meanwhile, 
controlled the “professional chain”, implementing these orders. 

Gotovina’s defence team also set out to show that the military police under the 
command of its chief Lausic were responsible for preventing all offences 
committed during the war, including war crimes.

It presented the court with a statement in which Gojko Susak, the then Croatian 
defence minister, seemed to confirm this. 

Yet when questioned, Theunens replied that it was the responsibility of a 
military commander to enforce discipline among his troops.

“Only when he fails is the military police called upon,” he said.

The expert witness said he thought that the defence was “trying to depict the 
role of the military police as one of a civilian police force”.

“Obviously, if in civilian life there is a problem between people, you call the 
police and they solve it. In the military, it is first through the chain of 
command, whereby the responsibility of commanders at all command levels is… to 
maintain discipline,” he said.

The defence then tried to show that Gotovina had no knowledge of war crimes and 
so could not have prevented them. 

Theunens conceded that he had not seen any documents to prove that the accused 
had been told about murders committed by Croatian soldiers. However, he 
insisted that Gotovina might have obtained such information orally.

The witness also maintained that it was “not only an issue of receiving the 
information, but also of informing himself”.

“So your position is, if General Gotovina had notice, he should have acted, and 
if he didn't have notice, he should have acted?” asked Misetic.

“My conclusion is that the commander has to be familiar with the situation in 
the zone of his responsibility. That does not only apply to the enemy 
situation, but also the situation of his own forces,” replied the expert.

The trial continues next week.

Katharina Goetze is an IWPR reporter in London.


BRIEFLY NOTED:

HAGUE PROSECUTOR REPORTEDLY SET TO PRAISE BELGRADE

Belgrade media say leaked report commends Serbia for “substantial progress in 
cooperation” with tribunal. 

By Aleksandar Roknic in Belgrade

Belgrade could be a step closer to European integration next month as a result 
of an allegedly positive report on its cooperation with international justice 
said to have been leaked to Serbian media this week.

In the three-page report which seems to be written by Serge Brammertz, the 
Hague tribunal chief prosecutor reportedly said that Serbia had made 
“substantial progress” in its cooperation with his office. 

Brammertz is set to present his conclusions on Belgrade’s cooperation to the 
United Nations Security Council, UNSC, on December 12.

While a positive assessment from the prosecutor is crucial to Serbia’s hopes of 
one day joining the European Union, observers say the country cannot make real 
strides towards accession until authorities hand over the remaining two 
fugitives – Ratko Mladic and Goran Hadzic.

In April, Belgrade signed a Stabilisation and Association Agreement, SAA - the 
first step towards full EU membership for Serbia. 

However, the Netherlands, with the support of Belgium, is insisting that the 
fugitives be delivered before the agreement is implemented. Most other members, 
meanwhile, would like it to go ahead as a gesture of good will towards Serbia, 
even without the fugitives in the dock.

According to Serbian media this week, Brammertz said that during a visit to 
Serbia earlier in the month, the authorities had presented serious operational 
plans for capturing the two men.

The prosecutor allegedly stated in the report that state agencies tasked with 
tracking down the fugitives had increased their efforts and were currently 
conducting more active and widespread searches.

“Planning and coordination between different security services, which were 
problematic in the past, have improved,” he is reported to have said. 

According to articles on the leaked report, Brammertz also wrote that Serbia’s 
National Council for Cooperation with the Tribunal had played a key role in 
providing documents. 

“Some progress has also been achieved in obtaining access to state security 
agency archives,” the Serbian media quote him as saying. 

In addition, the chief prosecutor is reported to have said there was serious 
concern about alleged threats being made to witnesses, some of whom had 
cancelled their testimony.
The Belgrade press says Brammertz wants the Serbian authorities to create an 
atmosphere that would facilitate the appearance of witnesses in ongoing and 
future trials. 

This week, Olga Kavran, spokeswoman for the tribunal’s Office of the 
Prosecutor, OTP, could not confirm whether the alleged leaked document, 
reported in the Serbian media, was authentic.

She told IWPR that Brammertz’s report had been sent to the UN and it was up to 
them to decide when to release it. 

She added that she expected this to happen in the next two weeks, ahead of 
Brammertz’s trip to New York.

Aleksandar Roknic is an IWPR-trained reporter in Belgrade.

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