WELCOME TO IWPR'S ICTY - TRIBUNAL UPDATE No. 581, December 12, 2008

DOUBTS RAISED ABOUT RULE LETTING JUDGES IMPOSE COUNSEL
Some lawyers say defendants are unlikely to cooperate with a lawyer forced upon 
them.
By Katharina Goetze in London 

COURTSIDE
LUKIC LAWYER SLAMS COURT OVER BRIBERY CLAIMS
Defence counsel for Milan Lukic says prosecution's investigation into bribery 
claims has prejudiced his case.
By Simon Jennings in The Hague

COURTSIDE
WITNESS CLAIMS SESELJ CASE POLITICALLY DRIVEN
Serbian Radical Party member said he thought tribunal investigators wanted to 
remove accused from Serbian politics.
By Simon Jennings in The Hague 

**** IWPR RESOURCES 
******************************************************************

NEW PROJECT: CENTRAL ASIA RADIO: http://iwpr.net/centralasiaradio

2008 WINNERS OF THE KURT SCHORK AWARDS: http://iwpr.net/kurtschork 

INTERNATIONAL JUSTICE/ICTY PROGRAMME HOME: http://iwpr.net/icty 

IWPR COMMENT: http://iwpr.net/comment

**** www.iwpr.net 
********************************************************************

TRIBUNAL UPDATE RSS: http://www.iwpr.net/en/tri/rss.xml 

RECEIVE FROM IWPR: Readers are urged to subscribe to IWPR's full range of free 
electronic publications at: 
http://www.iwpr.net/index.php?apc_state=henh&s=s&m=p 

GIVE TO IWPR: IWPR is wholly dependent upon grants and donations. For more 
information about how you can support IWPR go to: 
http://www.iwpr.net/donate.html 

**** www.iwpr.net 
********************************************************************

DOUBTS RAISED ABOUT RULE LETTING JUDGES IMPOSE COUNSEL

Some lawyers say defendants are unlikely to cooperate with a lawyer forced upon 
them.

By Katharina Goetze in London 

The Yugoslav war crimes court has adopted a new rule allowing judges to force 
lawyers upon suspects representing themselves, in what observers say is a bid 
to stop Radovan Karadzic turning his forthcoming trial into a political 
platform.

The amendment - which will allow judges to "assign a counsel to represent the 
interests of the accused" in the interests of justice - has been introduced in 
the run-up to the trial of the former Bosnian Serb leader.

There has been much speculation that Karadzic, who was arrested in July on 
charges including genocide, will use self-representation as a means of dragging 
out his trial.

But some lawyers said the rule, which may also be employed in the trials of 
other high-profile defendants, could backfire as defendants are unlikely to 
cooperate with a lawyer forced upon them, and could even become more 
obstructive as a result. 

"If the client refuses to talk to me [as his or her assigned counsel], what 
should I do?" asked Michiel Pestman, a lawyer with the Amsterdam firm Bohler 
Franken Koppe Wijngaarden.

Pestman said the tribunal had to find other ways of dealing with defendants who 
deliberately extended proceedings.

"To appoint a counsel is the last resort - it is a sign of desperation," he 
said.

Meanwhile, others pointed out that the new rule was unlikely to change much, as 
judges at the tribunal have always had the power to allocate lawyers to 
defendants under certain circumstances.

Karadzic is the latest of several war crimes defendants who have insisted on 
representing themselves.

While prosecutors have opposed his request on the grounds that he is untrained 
in courtroom procedure, Karadzic told the court the task had to be in his own 
hands so he could establish "the truth about our conflict". 

"I will defend myself before this institution as I would defend myself before 
any natural catastrophe," he declared during his first courtroom appearance.

According to Harvard law professor Alex Whiting, a former prosecutor at the 
Hague tribunal, Karadzic's decision to represent himself is "a signal that he 
does not consider the process legitimate, and will not agree to abide by its 
procedures".

Karadzic has already objected to the pace of proceedings, accusing the 
prosecution of trying to "rush and muddle" through preliminary hearings. 

"Men like Karadzic are used to being in charge and he probably thinks that 
there is nobody better than him to represent his interests in court, both 
because of his knowledge of the facts and because of his political skills," 
said Whiting.

Other defendants, most notably, the late Yugoslav president Slobodan Milosevic, 
have been accused of using self-representation as a platform to promote their 
political views.

The former president made it clear from the start that his decision to 
represent himself was politically motivated. 

"This trial's aim is to produce false justification for the war crimes NATO 
committed in Yugoslavia," he told the court, during his first appearance in 
2001. 

He repeatedly questioned the authority of the tribunal, and some observers say 
he made a mockery of the court by continually obstructing proceedings.

Because of Milosevic's ill health, hearings had to be suspended repeatedly, 
causing a delay of at least six months. When his death in 2006 put an end to 
his trial before a judgement could be passed, it caused great disappointment to 
victims of the Balkans wars of the Nineties.

The concept of self-defence has seemingly grown in popularity among 
high-profile defendants at the Hague court - many of whom have also been 
accused of deliberately disrupting their trials.

The former Bosnian Serb politician Momcilo Krajisnik, who was sentenced to 27 
years in prison in 2006, defended himself against charges including murder and 
persecution. 

Serbian politician Vojislav Seselj, who is also a trained lawyer, continues to 
do so.

The leader of the Serb Radical party, SRS, who is well known for his theatrical 
behaviour, has been accused of misusing the courtroom to promote his beliefs 
and abuse his right to privileged communications with his advisors to 
intimidate and blackmail witnesses.

Zdravko Tolimir, the former assistant to Bosnian Serb military leader Ratko 
Mladic, also intends to represent himself against charges of genocide. Tolimir 
has been seen to challenge the legitimacy of the court, by referring to his May 
2007 arrest as a "kidnapping".

He has also held up pre-trial proceedings by refusing to accept documents in 
Latin script, claiming he could not read them, in spite of the fact that he 
trained abroad and had already signed various documents written in Latin 
script. The accused also burst into tears after complaining that he had been 
denied a special tea to lower his blood pressure.

Earlier this year, Judge Kimberly Prost gave him a final warning to stop 
obstructing pre-trial proceedings as he "has persistently been doing for the 
past year".

Some say the new legislation to impose counsel will make it harder for 
defendants representing themselves to disrupt their trials.

"Up until now, the accused have got too much leeway in their right to 
self-representation," said Luka Misetic, a tribunal defence lawyer. But others 
wondered how much use an assigned lawyer could possibly be if the client 
refused to cooperate.

It could also pose an ethical dilemma for the defence counsel instructed.

"For me, to represent someone who doesn't want to be represented poses a legal 
as well as a practical problem," said Pestman, who was previously asked to 
represent Seselj, but refused.

"As a lawyer practicing under European civil law, it would be against my code 
of conduct, and the client could even file a complaint against me."

Yet prosecutors have already imposed lawyers on defendants at the court.

In the Milosevic trial, tribunal judges appointed a lawyer to assist with the 
defence of the accused, when he was deemed not fit enough to defend himself.

Meanwhile, prosecutors in the Seselj trial have made several requests to judges 
to impose counsel on the defendant, accusing him of obstructing proceedings.

A decision to assign counsel in the Serb politician's case was overturned when, 
in late 2006, he went on a hunger strike. After four weeks of refusing to eat, 
the appeals chamber revoked the ruling in a decision criticised by many 
lawyers, who saw it as capitulating to the demands of the accused.

Thomas Unger, a programme associate at the International Center for 
Transitional Justice in Brussels, pointed out that the appeals chamber would 
continue to control any decisions made by the trial chamber to assign counsel. 

He suggested that counsel would only be imposed in exceptional cases.

"If self-representation does not 'substantially and persistently obstruct' the 
proper and expeditious conduct of the trial, the appeals chamber is unlikely to 
affirm any trial chamber's decisions to the contrary, the new rule 
notwithstanding," he said. 

The introduction of the rule has also underlined the difficulties of balancing 
the interests of justice - and the right of the accused to self-representation 
- with the judges' desire for a rapid and orderly trial.

Under the tribunal's completion strategy, authorised by the United Nations 
Security Council, the court must conclude all trials by 2010.

Whiting said that the looming deadline, along with the arrest of Karadzic, 
might have motivated the introduction of the rule. 

"They want this train to run on time," he said, arguing that after the 
disappointment of the Milosevic case, prosecutors see in Karadzic an 
opportunity to redeem themselves.

"If they manage to try this big and high-profile case in an orderly and fair 
way it will also send a signal to advance the goals of international justice."

However, some questioned whether the court would be able to apply the new rule 
in the Karadzic case.

The former Bosnian Serb leader has been representing himself in court since 
September, and the tribunal's rules state that an amendment should not 
"prejudice the rights of the accused" in any pending case.

"Karadzic could have an argument, saying this can only apply for future cases, 
so that means only for future cases there can be a power to assign counsel in 
the interest of justice," said Goran Sluiter, a professor of international law 
at the University of Amsterdam.
Misetic, however, doubted that this was likely to happen. 

"The judges of the tribunal obviously passed this new rule with the intent of 
using it. Given that only two of the tribunal's indictees remain at large, it 
cannot be the case that the judges passed this new rule so that it could only 
apply to the last two fugitives [Ratko] Mladic or [Goran] Hadzic," he said. 

"I think the judges of the tribunal intended this new rule to be applicable to 
all accused who are currently on trial and who represent themselves." 

Tribunal spokesperson Nerma Jelacic, who declined to comment on any specific 
cases, said the rule "can be applied to any present and future case".

"The tribunal functions in such a way that some of its rules are made up as 
time goes along," Jelacic told IWPR, adding that the rule merely formalised 
what was already in practise.

But Sluiter questioned whether creating this rule was the right step. 

Instead, he backed the creation of legislation which would outline what is 
permissible behaviour for defendants representing themselves.
He said the court needed "a detailed rule, setting out in detail the procedure, 
and giving to all involved and also to the [self-represented] accused a clear 
framework, what is permissible and what is not permissible".

Pestman said the ultimate responsibility lay with the judges to tell a 
defendant when he is going too far.

"They have to find other ways of dealing with the accused. They should tell 
them to shut up when it is not relevant," he said.

Katharina Goetze is an IWPR reporter in London.


COURTSIDE 
LUKIC LAWYER SLAMS COURT OVER BRIBERY CLAIMS

Defence counsel for Milan Lukic says prosecution's investigation into bribery 
claims has prejudiced his case.

By Simon Jennings in The Hague

The defence lawyer for war crimes suspect Milan Lukic this week unleashed a 
tirade against the Hague tribunal over prosecution allegations that his team 
attempted to bribe a witness.

"The separate entities of this respected tribunal have acted in concert to 
deprive my client of his right to fair due process and [an] effective 
preparation for trial," Jason Alarid told the court, claiming that the 
prosecutor had conducted "a secret ...campaign waged to smear and slander the 
reputation of [his] defence team".

According to Alarid, a confidential contempt of court investigation began in 
August this year, and was linked to an alleged attempt to bribe prosecution 
witness Hamdija Vilic. 

Vilic testified before the International Criminal Tribunal for Former 
Yugoslavia, ICTY, in November, telling judges that the defendant's legal 
representatives had offered him 100,000 euro if he signed a prepared statement 
providing an alibi for Milan Lukic for a day on which he is accused of burning 
Bosniak civilians to death. 

The prosecution then alleged on November 18 that Lukic may have intimidated the 
family of a prosecution witness by telephone from prison in The Hague. The 
registry cut off Lukic's communication from the detention unit for a period of 
two weeks, at prosecutor Dermot Groome's request, prompting the defendant, 
according to his lawyers, to embark on a hunger strike. 

However, this week, Alarid called for the release of the defendant's telephone 
transcripts from The Hague prison "so the world can see that Milan Lukic was 
not intimidating any prosecution witness".

According to Alarid, his client was just trying to locate a witness to testify 
in his defence.

Lukic is on trial alongside his cousin, Sredoje Lukic, and charged with war 
crimes allegedly carried out in the eastern Bosnian town of Visegrad between 
1992 and 1994. Among the charges it is alleged that the two men are responsible 
for burning to death up to 140 Bosniak civilians in separate house fires in 
June 1992. 

Although Lukic's defence team was scheduled to start its case this week, Alarid 
explained that due to the prosecution's investigation into the bribery claims, 
his team was operating "under a cloud of criminal contempt investigations" 
which had prejudiced his case.

Alarid also claimed that defence witnesses were being intimidated and had 
received threatening telephone messages from unknown individuals, preventing 
him from bringing witnesses to The Hague.

He suggested that the authorities in Bosnia and Serbia may be involved.

"We can tell you [that we have information...] that the Bosnian secret police 
as well as elements of Republika Srpska and Serbia have an interest in our 
proceedings," alleged Alarid. 

Alarid also alleged that the Bosnian secret police "have an interest in 
bringing about the conviction of Milan Lukic" and suggested the prosecution was 
working with them to this end. 

To support his claim, he alluded to confidential Office of the Prosecutor, OTP, 
filings from August 13 and 29.

"We don't know what they are but they must relate to the joint efforts of the 
OTP and the Bosnian secret police," he said. 

He claimed witnesses who had arranged to sign sworn statements in defence of 
Lukic had had their homes raided before losing contact with the defence team.

Alarid acknowledged that he did not know all the details, but said it appeared 
"this was the birth of a plot to blacklist the defence".

He also alleged that the OTP had revealed the names of protected witnesses to 
the Bosnian authorities.

"You cannot say that the stigma of this ongoing investigation has not impacted 
the credibility of the entire defence presentation," said Alarid.

"The legal ramifications must be explored before we proceed." 

Alarid condemned the way the contempt investigation had been carried out, 
saying it had prejudiced his client's defence. He said that he was unable to 
give a timely response to certain allegations, because details had not been 
disclosed to him. He also criticised the fact that the same judges and 
prosecutors had worked on both the contempt investigation and the main trial. 

"The sheer number of filings and their very sensitive nature being presented 
to, and read by, the trial chamber for so long without the defence having 
notice of or the ability to respond and refute [them is] grossly prejudicial to 
the defence and how it is viewed by the trial chamber," said Alarid. 

"We believe the tactics of the prosecution were in reckless disregard of the 
potential to contaminate [the defence] process."

He said the judges, including tribunal President Patrick Robinson, may have to 
stand down. 

"We will be exploring... the potential disqualification of the presiding judge 
or trial chamber based on the co-mingling of this internal criminal 
investigation and its impact on the nature of fair trial," Alarid told the 
court. 

According to Alarid, the tribunal's vice president, Judge O-Gon Kwon, has 
already made a confidential ruling that the investigation had hindered defence 
preparations. 

"We have an ethical and professional obligation to uncover the truth of these 
accusations and stigma that the prosecution has chosen to utilise to impact the 
ability of the defence," he said. 

The defence lawyer mentioned a number of confidential filings made by the 
prosecution requesting the court to provide it with information about the Lukic 
defence team, including information on Alarid's co-counsel, Dragan Ivetic. 

He called for the prosecution's remaining confidential filings to be made 
public. He said he assumed they also related to the interference with and 
intimidation of witnesses. 

Judge Christine Van Den Wyngaert, who was presiding over proceedings in the 
absence of Judge Robinson this week, explained that the contempt investigations 
have now been dropped. She also said they would not influence the judges' 
handling of the case.

"What I want to emphasise is that the [confidential] contempt proceedings 
ultimately led to a dismissal of the [prosecution's motion relating to 
accusations of contempt] and that the trial chamber has very clearly indicated 
that we were not going to draw any adversary inferences from that," she told 
Alarid. 

Lukic's defence team has been under pressure from judges to start its case, 
which was scheduled to begin on December 3 after it had already been given 
additional time to prepare. Amid his volley of allegations this week, Alarid 
also made a number of pleas for additional time to call witnesses.

"It is with great dismay, sadness, and some trepidation that I inform the 
chamber that I will not be giving any opening statement or presenting evidence 
this week or next," he said, blaming what he described as unrealistic 
expectations put in place by the court and the lack of resources provided by 
the registry to mount his defence case. 

While the prosecution made no formal oral response to Alarid's allegations this 
week, it accepted the judges' invitation to file a written response. Alarid was 
also asked to submit his requests to judges in writing, while Groome took the 
opportunity to deny all allegations.

"Mr Alarid has made dozens of serious allegations," Groome said. "I will 
demonstrate the fallacy of all of these." 

"I deny vehemently all applications and misrepresentations made."

The parties will reconvene next week. However, as suggested by Alarid, it seems 
unlikely that the defence will be ready to present witnesses. 

Simon Jennings is an IWPR reporter in the Hague.


COURTSIDE 
WITNESS CLAIMS SESELJ CASE POLITICALLY DRIVEN

Serbian Radical Party member said he thought tribunal investigators wanted to 
remove accused from Serbian politics.

By Simon Jennings in The Hague 

The Hague tribunal trial of Serbian nationalist politician Vojislav Seselj 
heard this week from the defendant's former political ally who said that the 
prosecution's investigations in the case were politically driven.

Jovan Glamocanin told the court that in September 2006, he met with tribunal 
investigator Dan Saxon, who he said wanted to discredit the defendant due to 
the threat he posed to the political scene in Serbia.

According to the witness, he refused to go and meet Office of the Prosecutor, 
OTP, representatives at their office, so they arranged to come and meet him at 
his own flat. It was there that Saxon asked him to testify, he said.

"I had the impression that Dan Saxon was far more oriented towards implementing 
politics and the activities of the [United States' Central Intelligence Agency] 
than his legal functions and court functions," the witness told judges, 
although he didn't elaborate on this allegation.

Glamocanin said that during the meeting, he told Saxon he was not prepared to 
testify for the prosecution because he "knew of no crimes" that Seselj had 
committed. This prompted Saxon to push the political line, he said.

After these allegations, the prosecutor requested that the witness be warned 
about possible perjury charges, prompting presiding judge Jean-Claude Antonetti 
to remind him that he was testifying under oath. 

"Under oath," repeated Glamocanin. "And the oath makes it incumbent upon me to 
tell the truth." 

Glamocanin's assertions were contrary to a statement he gave prosecutors in 
2003. 

Although he signed that statement at the time, he denied in court that it had 
been translated into Serbian before he did so. The prosecutor insisted it had 
been translated for him and the witness had signed it to that effect. 

Seselj is on trial for war crimes and crimes against humanity carried out 
between 1991 and 1993, when irregular forces under his control allegedly 
expelled non-Serbs from parts of Croatia and Bosnia.

According to the charges against him, the defendant conducted a campaign of 
persecution, murder, and torture in order to create a "Greater Serbia" - a plan 
allegedly linked to senior political figures, such as former Serbian president 
Slobodan Milosevic and ex-Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic.

Glamocanin had been scheduled to appear as a prosecution witness in the trial 
against Seselj, leader of the Serbian Radical Party, SRS, but later changed his 
mind and decided to testify for the defence. 

He came to testify against Seselj only after he had been subpoenaed by judges.

During his testimony, Glamocanin also accused the late Serbian premier Zoran 
Djindjic of asking him to discredit the nationalist politically. 

He said Djindjic invited him to a meeting in April 2001 and told him that 
Serbia's new government "had a serious obstacle and that was Dr Vojislav Seselj 
and the Serbian Radical Party". 

Addressing his remarks to Seselj, who is defending himself, he said Djindjic 
had wanted to marginalise the SRS.

"Djindjic wanted to use that and use me to keep you at arms length, you and the 
Serbian Radical Party," he told Seselj. 

"He suggested various things to me and in return he would promise a good life 
for me."

In court, the witness was questioned extensively by the judges, the prosecution 
and the defendant. 

Glamocanin, who fell out with Seselj and left the SRS in 1996, before rejoining 
the party in March this year, was full of praise for the defendant.

"Dr Seselj was not in favour of any kind of violence or revenge, especially not 
persecution or genocide," Glamocanin, who has a legal and political background, 
told judges. 

The prosecution alleges that Seselj recruited volunteers to the SRS to help 
achieve his goal of a Greater Serbia. According to the indictment, Seselj 
visited these volunteer units and other Serb forces in Croatia and Bosnia, 
"instigating those forces to commit crimes".

But when questioned about SRS volunteers who fought with Serb forces, 
Glamocanin said, "Seselj was very strict when it came to infractions and 
violation of discipline.

"In addition to noble behaviour, [Seselj] would always stress the respect the 
volunteers had to demonstrate and he always insisted on discipline."

Asked about Seselj's relationship with Milosevic and Karadzic, the witness said 
that Milosevic viewed the defendant as a political competitor and that Karadzic 
"steered clear" of him.

"I do not know of any intensive relations between Seselj and Karadzic," he said.

In his earlier statement to prosecutors, the witness said Milosevic had 
supported the SRS and hinted that the late president might even have funded the 
party. 

However, in court this week, he was not certain that such a relationship had 
existed.

"I cannot substantiate that with anything. It's difficult to believe [because] 
Slobodan Milosevic blocked the party [and] incarcerated Dr Seselj," said the 
witness.

In 1994 and 1995, Seselj claims to be have been imprisoned as a result of his 
opposition to Milosevic.

Pressed further on the allegations that Seselj conspired with Karadzic and 
Milosevic, among others, to drive out non-Serbs, the witness admitted that 
Seselj "did meet with Radovan Karadzic".

The witness was then asked if there were also meetings between Seselj and Milan 
Martic, a former interior minister and president of the self-proclaimed Serbian 
Autonomous District, SAO, Krajina in Croatia, whom the prosecution alleges was 
also part of the conspiracy. In 2007, Martic was sentenced to 35 years in 
prison after being convicted of war crimes by the Hague tribunal. 

"I don't know specifically of any particular meeting, but I do know that there 
had been meetings," he replied.

Seselj used his cross-examination to attempt to distance himself from 
Milosevic, asking the witness to elaborate how the SRS clashed with Milosevic 
during 1993. 

"[Milosevic's government] blamed you for engaging in violence and many other 
negative things and they made it impossible for you to respond to the 
allegations against you," he said. 

"He treated you as his most serious political adversary." 

Both the judges and the defendant also questioned the witness about Serbian 
politics and the goals of the SRS during the early Nineties. 

"The objectives [of the SRS] were the preservation of Yugoslavia as a stable 
multinational community without bringing in to question the interests of each 
and every one of the Yugoslav peoples... and to establish a position of 
equality for the Serb people," said Glamocanin.

"You were really a man who entered politics wanting to do something good for 
your people," he told Seselj. 

Simon Jennings is an IWPR reporter in The Hague.


**** www.iwpr.net 
********************************************************************

ICTY - TRIBUNAL UPDATE, which has been running since 1996, details events and 
issues at the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia, ICTY, 
in The Hague.

These weekly reports, produced by IWPR's human rights and media training 
project, seek to contribute to regional and international understanding of the 
war crimes prosecution process.

The opinions expressed in ICTY - Tribunal Update are those of the authors and 
do not necessarily represent those of the publication or of IWPR.

ICTY - Tribunal Update is supported by the European Commission, the Dutch 
Ministry for Development and Cooperation, the Swedish International Development 
and Cooperation Agency, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, and other funders. 
IWPR also acknowledges general support from the Ford Foundation.

ICTY - TRIBUNAL UPDATE: Editor-in-Chief: Anthony Borden; Managing Editor: Yigal 
Chazan; Senior Editor: John MacLeod; Editor: Caroline Tosh; Project Manager: 
Merdijana Sadovic; Translation: Predrag Brebanovic, and others.

IWPR PROJECT DEVELOPMENT AND SUPPORT: Executive Director: Anthony Borden; 
Strategy & Assessment Director: Alan Davis; Chief Programme Officer: Mike Day.

**** www.iwpr.net 
********************************************************************

IWPR is an international network of four organisations which are governed by 
boards of senior journalists, peace-building experts, regional specialists and 
business professionals.

IWPR builds democracy at the frontlines of conflict and change through the 
power of professional journalism. IWPR programmes provide intensive hands-on 
training, extensive reporting and publishing, and ambitious initiatives to 
build the capacity of local media. Supporting peace-building, development and 
the rule of law, IWPR gives responsible local media a voice.

IWPR - Africa, P.O. Box 3317, Johannesburg 2121
Tel: +2 711 268 6077

IWPR - Europe, 48 Gray's Inn Road, London WC1X 8LT, UK
Tel: +44 20 7831 1030

IWPR - United States, 1616 H. Street, Washington, DC 20006, United States
Tel: +1 202 449 7663

Stichting IWPR Nederland, Eisenhowerlaan 77 K, 2517 KK Den Haag, The Netherlands
Tel: +31 70 338 9016

For further details on this project and other information services and media 
programmes, go to: www.iwpr.net 

ISSN 1477-7940 Copyright © 2008 The Institute for War & Peace Reporting 

**** www.iwpr.net 
********************************************************************

If you wish to change your subscription details or unsubscribe please go to:  
http://www.iwpr.net/index.php?apc_state=henh&s=s&m=p 


Reply via email to