Thanks a lot for your help! Mit freundlichen Grüssen / Kind regards
Daniel Büchele Dipl. Ing. Gebäudeklimatik- / Technik Projektleiter Helbling Holding AG Hohlstrasse 614 CH-8048 Zürich Telefon +41 44 438 18 64 Mobile +41 79 641 44 03 Telefax +41 44 438 18 10 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.helbling.ch <http://www.helbling.ch/> > ________________________________ Von: David Bradley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Freitag, 13. April 2007 20:09 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Büchele Daniel (Helbling Beratung + Bauplanung); [email protected] Betreff: RE: [TRNSYS-users] Exterior wall against ground Abdullahi, You are correct that you should integrate with respect to depth and calcuate the average. There is no simple way to do that directly in Type77/501 at the moment. It is an interesting idea for future versions. As a simple alternative, you can use the Kasuda depth for the middle of the below grade section of the wall although it is not quite as correct. Cheers, David At 12:27 4/13/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David/Daniel, My only concern with the use of Kasuda correlation (in the form used in type 77 &Type 501) for vertical surfaces like a basement wall, is the fact that these components will only give the soil temperature at a single vertical point (say depth Z,Z1,Z2 .....at any given time). If your wall is very deep, say 1-2m deep, what you need is probably the average temperature of a vertical profile ranging between depth Z1 and Z2. The way to go about this is to integrate the Kasuda expression with respect to depth (Z1 to Z2). My question to David is whether this is achievable with Type77/501? If not perhaps Daniel might want to look at the following document on how to integrate the Labs/kasuda correlations. Labs, K. 1989. Earth Coupling. Passive Cooling. J. Cook. Cambridge Massachusetts, The MIT Press: 197-346. Abdullahi School of the Environment University of Brighton Cockcroft Building Lewes Rd. Brighton BN2 4GJ Tel: +44 01273 643455 -----Original Message----- From: David Bradley [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ] Sent: 13 April 2007 17:38 To: Büchele Daniel (Helbling Beratung + Bauplanung); [email protected] Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Exterior wall against ground Daniel, Arie's response is quite correct. Additionally, if you do not want to use the annual ambient temperature as your boundary wall temperature, you can use the temperature of undisturbed ground as calculated by the Kasuda correlation from Type77. This makes the ground temperature a function of depth and time of year. Like with Arie's response, it assumes that the ground is an infinite source / sink and that energy transferred from the building through the wall to the ground does not affect the ground temperature in the long term. We have written a few basement models recently that do account for the change in the ground temperature due to energy transfer through the wall but they assume four basement walls and a floor. If you only have one wall below grade then you might be best off using Arie's method either with the annual average ground temperature or with Type77. Cheers, David At 12:48 4/12/2007, Helbling Beratung + Bauplanung wrote: Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C77D2A.CB11DF05" Hello everybody Can anyone, tell me whats the best way to simulate a external wall against the ground. How can I define the ground ?? Thanks in advance Mit freundlichen Grüssen / Kind regards Daniel Büchele Dipl. Ing. Gebäudeklimatik- / Technik Projektleiter Helbling Holding AG Hohlstrasse 614 CH-8048 Zürich Telefon +41 44 438 18 64 Mobile +41 79 641 44 03 Telefax +41 44 438 18 10 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] < http://www.helbling.ch <http://www.helbling.ch/> > _______________________________________________ TRNSYS-users mailing list [email protected] https://www.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/trnsys-users **************************************************************************************** Thermal Energy System Specialists (TESS), LLC David BRADLEY 2916 Marketplace Drive - Suite 104 Partner Madison, WI 53719 Phone: (608) 274-2577 USA Fax: (608) 278-1475 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Pages: http://www.tess-inc.com <http://www.tess-inc.com /> and http://www.trnsys.com <http://www.trnsys.com/> "Providing software solutions for today's energy engineering projects" **************************************************************************************** **************************************************************************************** Thermal Energy System Specialists (TESS), LLC David BRADLEY 2916 Marketplace Drive - Suite 104 Partner Madison, WI 53719 Phone: (608) 274-2577 USA Fax: (608) 278-1475 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Pages: http://www.tess-inc.com <http://www.tess-inc.com/> and http://www.trnsys.com <http://www.trnsys.com/> "Providing software solutions for today's energy engineering projects" ****************************************************************************************
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