Thanks a lot for your help!
 

Mit freundlichen Grüssen / Kind regards 


Daniel Büchele
Dipl. Ing. Gebäudeklimatik- / Technik 
Projektleiter  


Helbling Holding AG
Hohlstrasse 614
CH-8048 Zürich
Telefon +41 44 438 18 64
Mobile  +41 79 641 44 03
Telefax +41 44 438 18 10
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.helbling.ch <http://www.helbling.ch/> > 

 

________________________________

Von: David Bradley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Gesendet: Freitag, 13. April 2007 20:09
An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Büchele Daniel (Helbling Beratung + Bauplanung); 
[email protected]
Betreff: RE: [TRNSYS-users] Exterior wall against ground


Abdullahi,
  You are correct that you should integrate with respect to depth and calcuate 
the average. There is no simple way to do that directly in Type77/501 at the 
moment. It is an interesting idea for future versions. As a simple alternative, 
you can use the Kasuda depth for the middle of the below grade section of the 
wall although it is not quite as correct.
Cheers,
 David


At 12:27 4/13/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


        David/Daniel,
         
        My only concern with the use of Kasuda correlation (in the form used in 
type 77 &Type 501) for vertical surfaces like a basement wall, is the fact that 
these components will only give the soil temperature at a single vertical point 
(say depth Z,Z1,Z2 .....at any given time). If your wall is very deep, say 1-2m 
deep, what you need is probably the average temperature of a vertical profile 
ranging between depth Z1 and Z2. 
         
        The way to go about this is to integrate the Kasuda expression with 
respect to depth (Z1 to Z2). My question to David is whether this is achievable 
with Type77/501? If not perhaps Daniel might want to look at the following 
document on how to integrate the Labs/kasuda correlations. 
         
        Labs, K. 1989. Earth Coupling. Passive Cooling. J. Cook. Cambridge 
Massachusetts, The MIT Press: 197-346.
         
        Abdullahi
         
        School of the Environment
        University of Brighton
        Cockcroft Building
        Lewes Rd.
        Brighton
        BN2 4GJ
         
        Tel: +44 01273 643455
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: David Bradley [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> ] 
        Sent: 13 April 2007 17:38
        To: Büchele Daniel (Helbling Beratung + Bauplanung); 
[email protected]
        Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Exterior wall against ground
         
        Daniel,
          Arie's response is quite correct. Additionally, if you do not want to 
use the annual ambient temperature as your boundary wall temperature, you can 
use the temperature of undisturbed ground as calculated by the Kasuda 
correlation from Type77. This makes the ground temperature a function of depth 
and time of year. Like with Arie's response, it assumes that the ground is an 
infinite source / sink and that energy transferred from the building through 
the wall to the ground does not affect the ground temperature in the long term. 
We have written a few basement models recently that do account for the change 
in the ground temperature due to energy transfer through the wall but they 
assume four basement walls and a floor. If you only have one wall below grade 
then you might be best off using Arie's method either with the annual average 
ground temperature or with Type77.
        Cheers,
         David
        
        
        At 12:48 4/12/2007, Helbling Beratung + Bauplanung wrote:
        
        Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
        Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
                 boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C77D2A.CB11DF05"
        
        Hello everybody 
        
        Can anyone, tell me whats the best way to simulate a external wall 
against the ground. 
        How can I define the ground ?? 
        
        Thanks in advance 
        
        Mit freundlichen Grüssen / Kind regards 
        
        Daniel Büchele
        Dipl. Ing. Gebäudeklimatik- / Technik 
        Projektleiter 
        
        Helbling Holding AG
        Hohlstrasse 614
        CH-8048 Zürich
        Telefon +41 44 438 18 64
        Mobile  +41 79 641 44 03
        Telefax +41 44 438 18 10
        mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] < http://www.helbling.ch 
<http://www.helbling.ch/>  > 
        
        _______________________________________________
        TRNSYS-users mailing list
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        https://www.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/trnsys-users
        
        
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****************************************************************************************
Thermal Energy System Specialists (TESS), LLC 
David BRADLEY                           2916 Marketplace Drive - Suite 104 
Partner                                        Madison, WI 53719 
Phone: (608) 274-2577 USA 
Fax: (608) 278-1475 
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Web Pages:  http://www.tess-inc.com <http://www.tess-inc.com/>      and      
http://www.trnsys.com

<http://www.trnsys.com/> "Providing software solutions for today's energy 
engineering projects" 
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