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Previously sent Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:47:47 +0200
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:12:00 +0100
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 07:28:55 +0100
Fri, 11 Jul 2003 23:52:00 +0100
[020330: Sorry this is very badly formatted, the earlier ones I have also are,
and I don't have time to manually tidy it up (I made a few mild attempts here
and there though!. Hope it does not spoil your Easter, if you celebrate it!,
Ant]
Subject: TROM: Replay B24
Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 06:28:30 +0200
From: Antony Phillips Organization: International Viewpoints
To: tro...@newciv.org Ä TROM (2:235/159.10)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ TROM-L Ä
Msg : 246 of 289
Pvt
K/s
From : Dustin W. Carr Wed 13 Dec 95 23:09
To : trom-l Thu 14 Dec 95 06:12
Subj : Re: so...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ dknet.dk (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA25444 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995
23:54:17 +0100
On Tue, 12 Dec 1995, Homer W. Smith wrote:
> > > >This list is for the discussion of The Resolution of Mind (TROM) a
> > >technique developed mostly by Dennis Stephens to provide a means for the
> > >annihilation of the mind.
> > > > Why is this a desirable thing to do? Most of what follows is
related to a Scienotology viewpoint. My main complaint with this viewpoint is
that it I do not find it aesthetically pleasing. You also find alot of people
use this viewpoint as though it were an absolute truth, which can be annoying.
Whenever a person says this is a cause and this is the effect, they are
misleading. Without the mind there is not cause and effect, but, then again,
that is misleading as well. > > Mind is considered in the bigger context of
what the thetan is > doing in this universe learning from effects and carrying
around > that learning in his mental image picture bank (mind). > > Bodies are
built to have minds, thetans have minds to the degree > they are being bodies,
or something that needs to learn by being > an effect. > > It is important to
not confuse as-ising one's own universe and > thus one's own involvement with
mind, with as-ising the whole > physical universe. It is one thing to end the
game for oneself, its quite > another to end it for everyone else. That is
certainly a self consistent theory! As long as you create the existence of
other spirits, the world in which they exist will not disappear. I am sure
there is a way around that, however. :) > > One can in fact measure tone by
the
desire that a pc has to get rid > of something. He is able to get rid of
anything, but only if he is > able and willing to make more of it. > Which
comes first, the tone or the desire? > Bodies which are heavily inculcated in
physical universe laws > of action and reaction hate this. Thetans who are too
associated > with bodies then begin to run themselves and their own
univerwse >
using body laws. Thus the thetan developes pictures that must > never happen
again and he never goes near. Again, which comes first? Pictures need not
always be developed, or caused, by something. A being can have an aversion to
something without ever having encountered it. A pawn in chess has an aversion
to moving sideways, even though nothing bad has ever happened to him while
moving sideways. If a pawn did decide that he was no longer bound to the laws
of the game and decided to move wherever he wanted, the game would not be too
much fun. Than again, chess is not much fun anyway :). > > The BODY'S solution
to bad things is to never have them happen again, > this is its basic modus
operandi. It makes pictures of bad things, > and avoids them like the plague
and thus avoids the bad things too. > Notice however that the pictures
persist.
Persistence is the body's > game. > > If a thetan does the same thing, then
the
thetan accumulates endless > numbers of horrific pictures that also persist
and
it can never get rid of > them because he is not making more of them, and
eventually the thetan > becomes a body, or in a body acting as a body. > Of
course, all of these horrific pictures can be created in one instant, without
any past or any cause. > Thus the moment the thetan starts treating his own
universe the > same way that the body treats the physical universe, the thetan
> is doomed to become solid, unaware and highly reactive to things > in his
past present and future that he can not confront but can > only jump to the
tune of. > Or the soul can choose to become solid, unaware, and highly
reactive
so that it can be a body, and a good one at that. Lowering the "tone" being
angry, taking life seriously, these are all of the amenities that go along
with
acting out this tragic comedy. Of course no spirit is ever doomed, anytime you
want out of this game, you can get out, you just have to really want to. There
are many different ways for the mind to come into existence, each of them can
be valid for every being in this universe. With religious systems you can
define a way for how you got here, and that helps you define a way out.
This is
not always so easy, because your definitions must be all inclusive so that you
never have tendency to lose faith. TROM seems to bypass this for me. TROM is a
method, like Yoga. You don't have to learn a Mythos for TROM to work. You
meditate and you gain understanding. After you attain some understanding, you
can apply it to whatever mythos you prefer. Be it the omnipresence of the holy
trinity, or science fiction. > Thus the purpose of trom-l is not so much to
get
rid of mind, > but to get to a point where one CAN get rid of mind by making
more of it, > and at least end the condition of mind getting rid of the pc.
Agreed. The mind has some use, some of us would just prefer to choose when to
use it. > > Most pc's are in a decayed games condition with their mind,
assertedly > on the subject of the 4 goals To Know, To Not Know, To Be
Known, >
and To Not Be Known. > > The game is playing the pc as a piece in the game
rather than > as the designer and player of the game. > > One needs to erase
just enough of mind in order to be able > to put it back again where one wants
it. The goal is to have the pc > able and willing to locate mind, rather than
have the mind locating > the pc all day long. I go over all this in mind
numbing detail > in act7*.memo at the archives
ftp://ftp.lightlink.com/pub/homer/act > > > >TROM is something you do to
become
a > > >god, to achieve knowledge and conversation with the higher and divine
self. > > There is no higher divine self. That is schizophrenic. You have your
Mythos, and I have mine. I would not begin to insist that mine is truth,
but it
does bring beauty to my world. > The goal is to raise the divine self from the
lower condition of non > recognition back into the higher state of recognition
of its own divinity. > And how do you know that the beginning and the end are
the same being? Because you have faith, and that faith allows your system to
work for you. > > That sounds more interesting. But how can both descriptions
be true? > > Mind is a materialistic game based on knowledge gleaned by
learning > by being an effect in the physical or any other universe. It is > a
RECORDING of what was true that impinged on you. This is a direct > opposite
vector of being cause of knowledge. > > God creates minds, God has no mind.
> >
Except when he takes a vacation as a carrion dweller meatball. Is it
aesthetically pleasing to you to have that belief system? I guess I have had
too many bad experiences with meatball's (never eat at Sbarro!) :) > >
Therefore by erasing the beings compulsive involvement in mind > and
recordings
of things that are too dangerous to happen again, > one takes the being
back to
God hood where everything that happened > he caused in the first place, and
will again. Or maybe he'll find that they never happened at all. > > Homer > >
Dustin I reserve the right to be entirely inconsistent and irrelevant. It all
goes along with being schizophrenic.
--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn
0.99.950801
Ä TROM (2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ TROM-L
Ä Msg : 248 of 289 Pvt K/s
From : Bill Maier Thu 14 Dec 95 20:38
To : Merritt, John S
Sat 16 Dec 95 05:24
Subj : Re: Trom effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ
h ESMTP id HAA12944 for ;
Fri, 15 Dec 1995 07:20:18 +0100 You wrote: >
> >
Are sleeping disorders a common side effect of commencing TROM? The only
>other person I know who has run the early exercises also experienced some of
>this temporary effect. I had occasions where I was so alert and just "being there"
that I couldn't go to sleep, but never any real problem with sleeping, during
the time that I ran TROM. I also had a few occasions where lack of havingness
created some unpleasant effects, but I attribute this to insufficient use of
RI.
>Is anyone able to quantify any abilities gained through TROM. Has a
>'god' state really been achieved and what does this imply. Yes, I would like to hear
this from those that are in Level 5 of TROM. Some time ago I came up with
"Maier's Criteria", which are the basic OT abilities I am looking for from any
clearing technology: 1) ability to exteriorize at will with full perceptics 2)
ability to move, create, and/or destroy matter in the physical universe
without use of a body I have point blank asked many if they have actually achieved
these abilities. Few have been able to answer positively. These have included
people in Scientology, TROM, etc. >I would appreciate some help in locating
other material relating to TROM. > Or is TROM the only source of such valuable
material. > >Waiting for any responses with an open mind (While I still have
one!) > >John > There are some articles in recent IVy's on TROM. There is also
an explanation by Dennis Stephens circulating about where he explains
step-by-step how to do level 5.
Bill
--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn
0.99.950801
Ä TROM (2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ TROM-L
Ä
Msg : 249 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s
From : JHS Thu 14 Dec 95 08:04
To : tro...@newciv.org
Fri 15 Dec 95 05:08
Subj : faq
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ come.ping.dk> Thu, 14 Dec 1995 08:17:02 +0100 the file you wanted to
access is at http://www.newciv.org/jhs/iige/tromfaq.html it was last updatet
10/29/94 (ninety-four!) It would be good if we could get some different
(re)views and put it on the Web site. Joachim Below is Flemming's review (from
the same site):
TROM Review by Flemming Funch
The Resolution of Mind (by Dennis Stephens)
Dennis Stephens is an old-timer in the subject of Clearing. He was working
with Dianetics since 1950, involved in starting the first Dianetics group in
London.
For many years he hoped that one day there would be a full personal
development program that people could do completely on their own, resolving their own
aberrations without any need for a separate therapist. Eventually he
decided to write one himself and the result is this manual: "The Resolution of Mind - A
Games Manual".
Stephens is quite smug and arrogant in his claim of having accomplished what he
set out to make: a simple do-it-yourself program for reaching Nirvana, in the
form of resolving all problems of the mind.
Well, if you can stand his know-best attitude, and if you can handle that he is
probably exaggerating a bit, and that a bit of prior knowledge is required --
then you will find that this is quite a gem.
As a matter of fact, this material looks very promising. From the feedback I
have heard so far it is certainly workable in the hands of somebody with some
prior experience with solo clearing. How well it will work for somebody
starting completely from scratch, I don't know. I wouldn't be too surprised if
it turns out to be effective there too, as claimed.
The program consists of 5 levels. Level 1 would only be needed by very few
people, Stephens says, and that would require a separate practitioner. Most
people can start with Level 2.
The techniques are very simple and presented and explained quite clearly.
The very first thing I noticed in the book was a very simple model for goals
packages, which is what is dealt with on Level 5. It is the most satisfying
and simple model I have run into so far.
The manual is 80 pages. I liked it well enough to agree to stock up some
copies to sell. So, it is $40, shipping included, from
Flemming Funch
17216 Saticoy St. #147
Van Nuys, CA 91406.
--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950801 Ä TROM
(2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ TROM-L Ä
Msg :
250 of 289 Pvt K/s
From : Dustin W. Carr Fri 15 Dec 95 18:46
To : trom-l Sat 16 Dec 95 05:24
Subj : Re: Trom effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄÄ dknet.dk (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA06826 for ;
Fri, 15 Dec 1995 20:17:49 +0100 On Thu, 14 Dec 1995, Bill Maier wrote:
> You wrote:
> > >Is anyone able to quantify any abilities gained through TROM.
> Has a 'god' state really been achieved and what does this imply.
> > Yes, I would like to hear this from those that are in Level 5 of TROM.
> Some time ago I came up with "Maier's Criteria", which are the basic OT
> abilities I am looking for from any clearing technology:
> > 1) ability to exteriorize at will with full perceptics
> 2) ability to move, create, and/or destroy matter in the physical
> universe without use of a body At one point in time I actually was seeking
after these sort of things as well. After almost a year of level 5, I am
actually very happy with being human. I am here in this body, being this body
for a very good purpose and for a definite period of time. I am more than
content to live out the passion and the drama that is this life. TROM can be
most effective when it is done for its own sake, without lust of result.
Equilibrium is the law of our world. You don't create 1) without creating -1)
(referring to the above). You can be Buddha and choose not to create or desire
anything, or you can be the Son of Man and live out your life on earth
according to your divine will. These are, of course, not your only choices. I
don't see any special advantages being gained from 1) and 2) above. In 1), why
do you say full perceptics? Do you mean you want to go through all of this
trouble just to gain the ability to see the world as you already see it, only
from different viewpoints? You are selling yourself short. Creating a plane of
existence where you can "see" things and understand their relation to you in a
much deeper way than your eyes allow would be much more desirable, no? I
suppose being able to create and destroy physical objects is desirable, but if
you look around, you will see all of the beautiful objects you have created.
You say that you still can't create and destroy at will? I would suggest that
you do not confuse your "will" with chemical fluctuations in your brain.
Arbitrary thoughts and desires are not what drive your existence. You can
create and destroy at will all right. Indeed you can. > > I have point blank
asked many if they have actually achieved these > abilities. Few have been
able
to answer positively. These have > included people in Scientology, TROM,
etc. >
> >I would appreciate some help in locating other material relating to > TROM.
> > Or is TROM the only source of such valuable material. > > > >Waiting for
any responses with an open mind (While I still have one!) > > > >John > > >
There are some articles in recent IVy's on TROM. There is also an >
explanation
by Dennis Stephens circulating about where he explains > step-by-step how
to do
level 5. I will dig this out again and repost it. > > Bill > Dustin --- GIGO+
sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950801
--
--
Ant Antony A Phillips
i...@post8.tele.dk
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy). See Home Page:
http://home8.inet.tele.dk/ivy/
Administrator: trom-l, selfclearing-l, superscio-l,
previous-life-scio and IVy lists
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