************* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org ************
Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the advice, seems like everybody is advising to move up a few levels. A few months ago I come to the conclusion that I can separate TROM into 2 distinct parts: The ability to timebreak and the method of finding events. *1. The ability to timebreak: * you start with comparing past and present objects, then persons (Level 2). Then this ability will develop you get a better recall of the past event and you are able to compare the entire past scene with the present surroundings (level 3) and even later you get to the supermarket paradox level of recall. *2. The method of finding events:* Level 2: just choose some random event, and pick an object or preson from it Level 3: choose all events from your known past Level 4: Use the textual list of the 8 classes of overwhelms Level 5: By putting out postulates, create flows, which will knock ridges around which then come to my attention to timebreak (I see this as Scientology 8-80 style) So in my opinion putting and mixing these two parts in a linear scale (Levels 1-5) was a big mistake on the part of Dennis Stephens. I mean suppose you run out of events to run on level 2, you get no change anymore, but you still cannot timebreak an entire scene at once (happened with me last year). Since you don't find more charged events the only option is to jump to level 4 and 5. Or you just get change forever on level 2 (happening now), and still not able to timebreak an entire scene. >From reading the email list, it is my understanding that Dennis developed level 4 and 5 first. Then came Rowland Barkley with his track buster process, and Dennis incorporated that into TROM later, creating level 2 and 3. I suspect Dennis never run his process in the way he wrote about it in his book. In my current situation it takes me about 30 minutes to timebreak 1 scene from my past. With this speed, to timebreak this life (Level 3) seems to be impossible, would take more time than my life itself. So somehow I have to strengthen my timebreaking ability. So to start level 3: I don't have the ability time timebreak and entire scene, which is a requirement to start, and I don't have the time consequently to timebreak my entire life with level 2 method Level 4 and 5. I don't have the ability time timebreak and entire scene, but I can find induvidual scenes, and timebreak them in 30 minutes with the Level 2 method. As I have said, I've been experimenting with this in the last 6 months, but the truth is that I always find the same few events coming up again and again, and they are flat. So to conclude: I will drop running todays uncharged events, and will move to level 5 exclusively. I will experiment for a few months and let you know. To answer your questions: 1 hour sessions: I know I shouldn't work by the clock, but since it's hard to push myself to yawn for 1 hour, that's how I calibrate my willpower. If there is still yawning, I usually continue 5-15 minutes more to finish it. If I find something just before the end I continue it next time.(I always make notes) E-meter sweaty hands, tightening and loosening: I use a c-meter from Ralph Hilton http://www.freezoneearth.org/allmeters/scrapbook/C_Meter.htm It has fingertip electrodes, so I cannot squeeze them. E-meter distracts attention: the c-meter has about 2 minutes history (you can see at the bottom part on the picture) I just look on the display every minute to see what happened before. If I see a totally flat line (= no needle movement) I move on, if I see it is moving I continue with the current process. Special Thanks to Robin for the extensive write-up. Vorb On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 10:58 AM, The Resolution of Mind list < trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote: > ************* > The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org > ************ > Dear Vorb, > > I've checked back what you've posted in March 2016 to get some > additional data. Your post was titled "Suffering on Level Two for 100 > Hours". > That account of yours reflected a deep frustration with your > experience with TROM up to that time - and you expressed that explicitly > at the end of your extensive write-up. > > You still seem to have similar troubles in your endeavor into resolving > your mind as about a half year ago. But I could hardly believe that the > March 2016 post and the recent one had been written by the same person. > > The position of a person on the tone scale - no matter if acute or chronic > - > reflects in the person's outgoing communication. Now, your recent comm. > sounds to me a lot more optimistic and much less frustrated - even with > a tinge of self-ironic humor. Well, that does not at all sound like bad > indicators or a non-improvement case-wise to me. The persistence and > stamina > you muster up would not fit into the picture of a desperate person too. > > I understand that you're doing one-hour sessions typically. That seems to > be > a reasonable time span. Never the less keep in mind that the session time > should not be > determined by the clock but rather shall depend on how long it takes to > come > to a good point or a point where the activity no longer produces change. > In that regard a session may take a few minutes up to several hours. > If you stop too early always, you never push through to the other side, > so to speak, and at the next session you have to start the cycle all > over again almost from the beginning. Frustrating, isn't it. > Have you ever tried to get beyond the point of excessive yawning? > > Yawning is not bad of course; it can indicate charge releasing. > > If you loose interest in a process it may have been run beyond a flat > point or there was no charge targeted by it at all right from the > beginning. > Of course one must be honest in assigning 'disinterest' to a certain > activity > and not use it as an excuse to dodge that activity. > > A run beyond a win, flat or good point can be remedied by rehabilitating > that > point. Scan through your session and look if you find such a overrun point > and acknowledge that to yourself. > Remedying havingness by any process intended for that purpose, including > MEST-work can be of help here. (I would like to rename RI from "Repair of > Importance" to "Remedy of Importance" - it's more to the point, I think.) > > Your question: > "Can somebody tell me why the hell am I yawning for 30 minutes on > timebreaking a random stranger ??? > There can be zero charge on an event like this, then why am I yawning ???" > > The question is legitimate of course. But, it is useless to try to apply > analytical logic to contents of the Reactive Mind (RM). > You know the RM works on the basis of A=A=A (association). > There might be no charge on a 'random stranger' itself but may be the RM > associates it with any other charged content. Or the restimulation is due > to > "going back in the morning and select a total random stranger I saw on > the street in the morning." - I do not say that this is the case; this are > only examples to point out how illogically the RM acts. > > Your description of TA behavior supports the impression that an Overrun > (please see the definition and quote of LRH below for your reference) > occurred - may be not only in some of your sessions - but that the whole > of TROM Level 2 has flattened-out for you (at least for the time being). > (Since high or low TA can have many different reasons the above does not > establish a fact of course. I assume that you're familiar enough with an > E-Meter that you can rule out the effects of sweaty hands or a involuntary > tightening (-> lower TA) or loosening (-> higher TA) on the cans as > influencing > factors here). > > Perhaps you try without the E-meter. May be it draws too much attention > because you get worried about the TA? > > I said purposely "at least for the time being" in the above paragraph > because > those things having flattened out may become auditable again later, when > in the > meantime other processing had been done. So you could go on immediately to > the next levels of TROM up to L5 and just see what happens. Three > possibilies: > a) You're doing fine and progress, > b) nothing happens, > c) you start to run into severe troubles, > d) you progress for a while along that line and then run into difficulties > of one > kind or other. > > In case: > a) Continue along that line. > b) That can mean, the level is far beyond your current case state. > Drop back to a lower level with the appropriate gradient. > c) You should *immediately* drop back to a lower level. > You can always drop back to a lower level. Bail out yourself with > thoroughly running havingness. Let the situation calm down, then go on. > d) Again you drop back now to the lower level. You may see that this level > - > which has ceased to produce change previously - now delivers new > accessible > material to be handled. > > Recommended study: > (Re)read the Purposes and End Results of each level. You need not dig > through > the whole TROM-materials to do this; Judith Anderson has written a good > summary > of the whole procedure and all levels in a nutshell. > > I hope very much that this may be of some help for you. > Your willpower sure is admirable. > > Best wishes > > Robin > > --- > > References: > > Tech. Dict.: > "OVERRUN, 1. an overrun means doing something too long that has engrams > connected with it which means an engram chain with too many engrams on it > being restimulated by life or auditing. Hence overrun. If this overrun > persisted > unhandled eventually the pc would be overwhelmed and one in theory, would > have a low TA. (HCOB 16 Jun 70) 2 . gone on too long or happened too often. > (HCOB 3 Jun 71) 3 . means the pc came out of the bank and the pc went back > into it again. (Class VIII, No. 2) 4 . continuing a process past the > optimum point. > (Abil 218) 5 . running past a free, floating needle on any type of process. > (HCOB 2 Aug 65) > > --- > > HCOB 8 June 1970 Low TA Handling > > > HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE > Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex > > HCO BULLETIN OF 8 JUNE 1970 > > Remimeo > > > LOW TA HANDLING > > > A person whose TA is low is in a state of overwhelm. > > Poor TRs or rough auditing easily drive the TA down. > > A TA can go low during a run like on engrams, and can come back > up when actual erasure occurs. > > Usually a person whose TA goes below 2.0 when run on incidents > too steep for him will get low TA. > > A low TA is of course any TA below 2.0. > > An occasional cause of this is as simple as the meter not being > trimmed. > > Sweaty hands, improper electrodes and sometimes a faulty meter > also cause a "low TA" to appear. > > Heavy processes like LX 1-2-3 are sometimes an overwhelm. > > An invalidative look on an Examiner's face can drive a TA down a > bit. Cold cans can send it UP high. Lack of rest or time of the > day gives some cases a low or high TA. At 2:00 A.M. TAs often are > very high, for instance. > > Persons with low TAs tend to be somewhat inactive in life and > noncausative. > > When audited with poor TRs or on processes too steep, some > persons' TAs go low (below 2.0). > > An F/N is NEVER an F/N when above 3.0 or below 2.0. > > Life repairs and auditing repairs, light processes and no-goof > auditing are the proper actions for low TA cases. > > Auditors whose pcs' TAs go low should look to the flawlessness of > their auditing, the ease of their TRs and refuse any heavy > overwhelm-type C/Ses for such pcs. > > Good two-way comm on troubling subjects, use of prepared lists on > life, mild close-to Objective Processes, no forcing over > protests, never running processes that don't read first, getting > the pc out of being effect and toward being cause, extroverting > the pc's attention with Objective Processes, all work well on low > TA cases. > > The actual technical reason for low TAs is found in higher levels > and does not concern and would be of no use to lower-level pcs. > > Take it easy. Don't goof as auditor or C/S are the keynotes of > low TA cases. > > My opinion on this is that people worry too much about low TAs. > > On Flag where auditing is done like silk, we haven't seen any low > TAs for ages. > > > L. RON HUBBARD > > > --------------- > > > > On Tue, 30 Aug 2016 18:53:33 +0200, <trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org> wrote: > > Send TROM mailing list submissions to >> trom@lists.newciv.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> trom-ow...@lists.newciv.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of TROM digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. 150 hours on Level 2 (The Resolution of Mind list) >> 2. Re: 150 hours on Level 2 (The Resolution of Mind list) >> 3. Re: 150 hours on Level 2 (The Resolution of Mind list) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 14:45:57 +0200 >> From: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> >> To: trom@lists.newciv.org >> Subject: [TROM1] 150 hours on Level 2 >> Message-ID: <mailman.32200.1472561115.1234.t...@lists.newciv.org> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Hi Trommers, >> >> I just hit 150 hours on level 2 the last week, so I thought I summarize my >> experiences. >> Here you can find my previous write up: http://lists.newciv.org/ >> pipermail/trom/2016-March/005194.html >> My Goal for this year is to reach 100 hours with TROM (200 hours >> altogether), most probably I >> will do all of it on level 2. I'm a bit behind schedule (it's almost >> September now, >> and still have 50 more hours to go), but I have much more free time now, >> so >> I hope I will be able to do it. >> >> I still do 1 hour sessions, try to do one every day. Still spend about 90% >> of my session time yawning and >> cleaning my nose (the excessive yawning causes my nose to run). I had zero >> wins, just endless suffering, but >> hey that's just fine, I'm masochistic. >> >> Previously I always had trouble to find events that produce change (= >> yawning in my case), now it is very easy. >> I just go back in the morning and select a total random stranger I saw on >> the street in the morning, >> and that gives me somewhere between 30 to 60 minutes of yawning. Then when >> the yawning is gone, run RI >> then I pull out the level 4 list (Robin's advice on my previous email, >> thanks), and just try to use the chart >> to find another event, that I can run out. It usually runs out faster than >> the not charged morning event. >> Can somebody tell me why the hell am I yawning for 30 minutes on >> timebreaking a random stranger ??? >> There can be zero charge on an event like this, then why am I yawning ??? >> >> I run RI as per the book. RI had never had much effect on me. I run it, it >> gets very very boring within a few >> minutes. I know this not because I feel bored, but because my attention >> wanders away, I continue RI, attention >> wanders again, and after I few minutes I just give up on RI, and do the >> timebreaking or finish the session. >> >> E-meter wise I usually start with a tone arm between 4.5 and 3.5. It goes >> down to 3 in a few minutes, >> and after about 20 minutes it reaches 2. Sometimes I go down to 1.6 which >> is very low, and I know, I shouldn't >> go below 2. Sometimes I tried to run RI for 15 minutes to move the tone >> arm >> back. After 15 minutes I can >> push back the tone arm to 2.5 or 3.5, but that doesn't help much, a few >> minutes of timebreaking and I loose it >> all again, so I don't do that any more. >> >> My biggest problem is still motivation. I have no wins at all. No >> realizations. No Cognitions. >> Just yawning and suffering. So every session must start from brute force >> willpower. >> If I would have just a little gain, the whole process would carry on >> itself. >> >> Any advice for you guys? >> >> Thanks, Vorb >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: <http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20160830 >> /e15b0d46/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 09:52:52 -0700 >> From: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> >> To: trom@lists.newciv.org >> Subject: Re: [TROM1] 150 hours on Level 2 >> Message-ID: <mailman.32386.1472575931.1234.t...@lists.newciv.org> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Hi Vorb >> My first impression is that your over running the processes. >> >> I use RI to move the focus of my attention off my reactive mind and put >> it on something I just created. >> If I am obsessing over some incident in life I stop that and do RI to >> focus my attention on something that I feel is important that I just >> created. This brings my attention into present time and takes it off my >> mind. >> >> If you are not bringing up incidents in your mind by looking at non >> significant incidents or people then it is time to move onto level 5. >> Start working out what is happening at each level of the Postulate >> Failure chart till you have it memorized and can see how the game >> postulates are in conflict at each level and how they change when you move >> up or down one level. >> >> Thoroughly understanding the level 5 chart took me many hours of study. >> I drew the chart out in pencil on a large piece of paper several times. >> Then redrew it in abbreviated form several times till I could see the >> progression of changing postulates for self and other and know what had to >> come next in the progression. I could almost draw up the chart from memory >> because I understood what was changing from level to level. >> >> Once you have that down start putting up the games as Dennis recommends >> and looking for incidents in your past that fit the game you are looking >> for. Timebreak what shows up. >> >> With this work you should start finding some incidents to run and start >> recognizing the games that are being played out by people and government >> and banks and police. Every time you look at a news story about police >> shutting down a kids lemonade stand or EU government fining Apple Computer >> $15 billion for avoiding paying taxes you will see the games being played >> by both parties. >> >> This is the process of becoming a games master. You go from a broken >> piece in the games to a game player to a game master who no longer needs to >> play any game and can help others who are having trouble to win at their >> games. >> >> Along the way you will find the games you are compulsively playing and >> the games you are compulsively avoiding. Get the charge off these and you >> are free to not play any games. >> >> Good Luck >> >> Pete McLaughlin >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Aug 30, 2016, at 5:45 AM, The Resolution of Mind list < >>> trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote: >>> >>> ************* >>> The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org >>> ************ >>> Hi Trommers, >>> >>> I just hit 150 hours on level 2 the last week, so I thought I summarize >>> my experiences. >>> Here you can find my previous write up: http://lists.newciv.org/piperm >>> ail/trom/2016-March/005194.html >>> My Goal for this year is to reach 100 hours with TROM (200 hours >>> altogether), most probably I >>> will do all of it on level 2. I'm a bit behind schedule (it's almost >>> September now, >>> and still have 50 more hours to go), but I have much more free time now, >>> so I hope I will be able to do it. >>> >>> I still do 1 hour sessions, try to do one every day. Still spend about >>> 90% of my session time yawning and >>> cleaning my nose (the excessive yawning causes my nose to run). I had >>> zero wins, just endless suffering, but >>> hey that's just fine, I'm masochistic. >>> >>> Previously I always had trouble to find events that produce change (= >>> yawning in my case), now it is very easy. >>> I just go back in the morning and select a total random stranger I saw >>> on the street in the morning, >>> and that gives me somewhere between 30 to 60 minutes of yawning. Then >>> when the yawning is gone, run RI >>> then I pull out the level 4 list (Robin's advice on my previous email, >>> thanks), and just try to use the chart >>> to find another event, that I can run out. It usually runs out faster >>> than the not charged morning event. >>> Can somebody tell me why the hell am I yawning for 30 minutes on >>> timebreaking a random stranger ??? >>> There can be zero charge on an event like this, then why am I yawning ??? >>> >>> I run RI as per the book. RI had never had much effect on me. I run it, >>> it gets very very boring within a few >>> minutes. I know this not because I feel bored, but because my attention >>> wanders away, I continue RI, attention >>> wanders again, and after I few minutes I just give up on RI, and do the >>> timebreaking or finish the session. >>> >>> E-meter wise I usually start with a tone arm between 4.5 and 3.5. It >>> goes down to 3 in a few minutes, >>> and after about 20 minutes it reaches 2. Sometimes I go down to 1.6 >>> which is very low, and I know, I shouldn't >>> go below 2. Sometimes I tried to run RI for 15 minutes to move the tone >>> arm back. After 15 minutes I can >>> push back the tone arm to 2.5 or 3.5, but that doesn't help much, a few >>> minutes of timebreaking and I loose it >>> all again, so I don't do that any more. >>> >>> My biggest problem is still motivation. I have no wins at all. No >>> realizations. No Cognitions. >>> Just yawning and suffering. So every session must start from brute force >>> willpower. >>> If I would have just a little gain, the whole process would carry on >>> itself. >>> >>> Any advice for you guys? >>> >>> Thanks, Vorb >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TROM mailing list >>> TROM@lists.newciv.org >>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: <http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20160830 >> /e642a15c/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 09:54:14 -0700 >> From: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> >> To: trom@lists.newciv.org >> Subject: Re: [TROM1] 150 hours on Level 2 >> Message-ID: <mailman.32387.1472576013.1234.t...@lists.newciv.org> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> By the way. >> >> Well done on persisting on a difficult course of action. You obviously >> have what it takes to succeed with TROM. >> Keep up the good work. >> >> Sincerely >> Pete McLaughlin >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Aug 30, 2016, at 5:45 AM, The Resolution of Mind list < >>> trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote: >>> >>> ************* >>> The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org >>> ************ >>> Hi Trommers, >>> >>> I just hit 150 hours on level 2 the last week, so I thought I summarize >>> my experiences. >>> Here you can find my previous write up: http://lists.newciv.org/piperm >>> ail/trom/2016-March/005194.html >>> My Goal for this year is to reach 100 hours with TROM (200 hours >>> altogether), most probably I >>> will do all of it on level 2. I'm a bit behind schedule (it's almost >>> September now, >>> and still have 50 more hours to go), but I have much more free time now, >>> so I hope I will be able to do it. >>> >>> I still do 1 hour sessions, try to do one every day. Still spend about >>> 90% of my session time yawning and >>> cleaning my nose (the excessive yawning causes my nose to run). I had >>> zero wins, just endless suffering, but >>> hey that's just fine, I'm masochistic. >>> >>> Previously I always had trouble to find events that produce change (= >>> yawning in my case), now it is very easy. >>> I just go back in the morning and select a total random stranger I saw >>> on the street in the morning, >>> and that gives me somewhere between 30 to 60 minutes of yawning. Then >>> when the yawning is gone, run RI >>> then I pull out the level 4 list (Robin's advice on my previous email, >>> thanks), and just try to use the chart >>> to find another event, that I can run out. It usually runs out faster >>> than the not charged morning event. >>> Can somebody tell me why the hell am I yawning for 30 minutes on >>> timebreaking a random stranger ??? >>> There can be zero charge on an event like this, then why am I yawning ??? >>> >>> I run RI as per the book. RI had never had much effect on me. I run it, >>> it gets very very boring within a few >>> minutes. I know this not because I feel bored, but because my attention >>> wanders away, I continue RI, attention >>> wanders again, and after I few minutes I just give up on RI, and do the >>> timebreaking or finish the session. >>> >>> E-meter wise I usually start with a tone arm between 4.5 and 3.5. It >>> goes down to 3 in a few minutes, >>> and after about 20 minutes it reaches 2. Sometimes I go down to 1.6 >>> which is very low, and I know, I shouldn't >>> go below 2. Sometimes I tried to run RI for 15 minutes to move the tone >>> arm back. After 15 minutes I can >>> push back the tone arm to 2.5 or 3.5, but that doesn't help much, a few >>> minutes of timebreaking and I loose it >>> all again, so I don't do that any more. >>> >>> My biggest problem is still motivation. I have no wins at all. No >>> realizations. No Cognitions. >>> Just yawning and suffering. So every session must start from brute force >>> willpower. >>> If I would have just a little gain, the whole process would carry on >>> itself. >>> >>> Any advice for you guys? >>> >>> Thanks, Vorb >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TROM mailing list >>> TROM@lists.newciv.org >>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: <http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20160830 >> /a221c463/attachment.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TROM mailing list >> TROM@lists.newciv.org >> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >> >> >> End of TROM Digest, Vol 142, Issue 9 >> ************************************ >> > _______________________________________________ > TROM mailing list > TROM@lists.newciv.org > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >
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