************* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org ************ Robin, Belief is an estimation of the truth when the truth is not known. Since Christians don't regularly go to heaven every day and talk with the folks there they operate on a "guess". There is a huge difference between Belief and Truth - which is ok. What is not ok is mistaking Belief for Truth. At that point searching for the truth stops.
The phrase " Believing you may in the church " .... German places the parts of the sentence differently than English. My guess is the English translation would be " You can GUESS about things in church but here and now you need to KNOW " The triangle would be Faith Hope & Charity - or that is what I was taught in Catholic school. I think they thought of love as sex and didn't want to discuss it. One can be convinced that his faith is a certain truth. But he's still 'wishing and hoping'. There would not be such an addiction to religion if we knew (KNEW) we were immortal, could easily remember our past incarnations and have an excellent grasp on the future. We are in an amnesiac state. We don't know. Since it is an issue that strikes home we savagely cling to whatever explanation we can come up with as to what the hell is going on, who am I and what am I doing here. To attack one's religion is to attack the very core of the individual. If we had all the data then religion would be a poo-poo subject. (unimportant) But then we would not have the focus. best, Paul -----Original Message----- From: trom-boun...@lists.newciv.org [mailto:trom-boun...@lists.newciv.org] On Behalf Of trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 5:00 AM To: trom@lists.newciv.org Subject: TROM Digest, Vol 145, Issue 5 Send TROM mailing list submissions to trom@lists.newciv.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org You can reach the person managing the list at trom-ow...@lists.newciv.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of TROM digest..." Today's Topics: 1. "Believe" - Re: TROM Digest, Vol 145, Issue 4 (The Resolution of Mind list) 2. Re: "Believe" - Re: TROM Digest, Vol 145, Issue 4 (The Resolution of Mind list) 3. "Believing you may in the church, ..." (The Resolution of Mind list) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2016 15:10:59 +0100 From: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> To: trom@lists.newciv.org Subject: [TROM1] "Believe" - Re: TROM Digest, Vol 145, Issue 4 Message-ID: <mailman.18202.1478009723.1261.t...@lists.newciv.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes On Tue, 01 Nov 2016 11:30:01 +0100, <trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org> wrote: Hi David, thanks for commenting my recent post. Very educative for me. You asked: > (I would like to know about how it is used and defined in other > languages?) My native tongue is German. In German language we have "Glaube" = "believe" and "?berzeugung" = "conviction". There is as well "Sicherheit" (which has more than one meaning) and can mean "certainty". Sometimes we mix the meanings similar as in English. But not that often. There is even a saying which goes like this: "Glauben hei?t nichts wissen." which translates to: "Believing means to know nothing (or to know not)." Some people - when they want to be insulting - add: "Glauben kannst' in der Kirche." which means: "Believing you may in the church, ..." The English we learn in school is only adequate for small talk or to socialize. It often does not even suffice business-world requirements. What I know of English is mostly from reading English books or listening to native speakers. That has the inherent danger that I copy their diction. I cannot recognize if it's wrong. Therefore I'm always glad to converse with native speakers and get corrected. I have a question: In Christianity they have a kind of triangle. This is in German: "Glaube - Liebe - Hoffnung" That could be translated into English as: "Believe - Love - Hope" or: "Faith - Love - Hope" perhaps even: "Conviction - Love - Hope" Or is none of them correct? Perhaps you can occasionally give me the right translation. Thanks Robin ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2016 13:14:48 -0400 From: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> To: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> Subject: Re: [TROM1] "Believe" - Re: TROM Digest, Vol 145, Issue 4 Message-ID: <mailman.18738.1478035941.1261.t...@lists.newciv.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Robin, Thank you for correcting my on the names. My mind is giving up. :) For simplicity I will intersperse in your reply: Hi David, thanks for commenting my recent post. Very educative for me. You asked: (I would like to know about how it is used and defined in other languages?) > My native tongue is German. D> Do you live in Germany? In German language we have "Glaube" = "believe" and "?berzeugung" = "conviction". There is as well "Sicherheit" (which has more than one meaning) and can mean "certainty". Sometimes we mix the meanings similar as in English. But not that often. There is even a saying which goes like this: "Glauben hei?t nichts wissen." which translates to: "Believing means to know nothing (or to know not)." D> I like that. The person who put that together was intelligent. Nothing is true unless it is proven to be true. Some people - when they want to be insulting - add: "Glauben kannst' in der Kirche." which means: "Believing you may in the church, ..." D> I do not get the point behind: "Believing you may in the church, ..." It does not make sense in English. Please give more detail. The English we learn in school is only adequate for small talk or to socialize. It often does not even suffice business-world requirements. What I know of English is mostly from reading English books or listening to native speakers. That has the inherent danger that I copy their diction. I cannot recognize if it's wrong. Therefore I'm always glad to converse with native speakers and get corrected. I have a question: In Christianity they have a kind of triangle. This is in German: "Glaube - Liebe - Hoffnung" That could be translated into English as: "Believe - Love - Hope" or: "Faith - Love - Hope" perhaps even: "Conviction - Love - Hope" Or is none of them correct? Perhaps you can occasionally give me the right translation. D> I do not know enough to answer that exactly. I need to know a lot D> more how Germans think. I can only guess that it can mean anyone of the above, depending on the situation where or how it is used or even the intellectual level of the person using it. Like in English the word believe and your corresponding words can morph into whatever the user wants it to mean. Usually unwittingly, unconsciously, inadvertently and ignorantly. It is an area that the most people on earth do not understand. They have not thought that area through. The words exist on the borderline between the known and unknown, and what is certain and what is uncertain. Faith also falls in this category. Faith is what you use when you do not have enough knowledge to have confidence in what you know. Faith also means blind faith. Believing is similar. Believing is what you do (a mental function you use), when you do not know the facts. And everything else I already explained. Regards, David Thanks Robin On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 10:10 AM, The Resolution of Mind list < trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote: > ************* > The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org > ************ > On Tue, 01 Nov 2016 11:30:01 +0100, <trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org> wrote: > > Hi David, > > thanks for commenting my recent post. Very educative for me. > > > You asked: > > (I would like to know about how it is used and defined in other > languages?) >> > > My native tongue is German. > > In German language we have "Glaube" = "believe" > and "?berzeugung" = "conviction". > There is as well "Sicherheit" (which has more than one meaning) and > can mean "certainty". > > Sometimes we mix the meanings similar as in English. > But not that often. > > There is even a saying which goes like this: > > "Glauben hei?t nichts wissen." which translates to: > "Believing means to know nothing (or to know not)." > > Some people - when they want to be insulting - add: > "Glauben kannst' in der Kirche." which means: > "Believing you may in the church, ..." > > > The English we learn in school is only adequate for small talk or to > socialize. It often does not even suffice business-world requirements. > > What I know of English is mostly from reading English books or > listening to native speakers. That has the inherent danger that I copy > their diction. I cannot recognize if it's wrong. > > Therefore I'm always glad to converse with native speakers and get > corrected. > > > I have a question: > > In Christianity they have a kind of triangle. > This is in German: > > "Glaube - Liebe - Hoffnung" > > That could be translated into English as: > > "Believe - Love - Hope" > > or: > > "Faith - Love - Hope" > > perhaps even: > > "Conviction - Love - Hope" > > Or is none of them correct? > > Perhaps you can occasionally give me the right translation. > > Thanks > > > Robin > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TROM mailing list > TROM@lists.newciv.org > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20161101/5c0533f9/attach ment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2016 15:00:04 -0400 From: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> To: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> Subject: [TROM1] "Believing you may in the church, ..." Message-ID: <mailman.18739.1478035941.1261.t...@lists.newciv.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Robin, I think I just cogged on what it means: It means, you can "believe" in church, but not in the real world or in the everyday world. "Believing.... you may do so in the church, ..." Believing in the real world, will get you into trouble. David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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