Blaine: They clearly saw Jesus Christ as a rival to their own control over the source (the people) of what they valued most--money, power, status. Their hearts were so much preoccupied with these things, they rationalized to themselves they had cause against him sufficient to kill him.
Judy: Is killing another human being ever a rational deed even when pre meditated and planned? More likely it is something done irrationally in the passion of the moment. **Blaine By "rationaized," I mean they thought up excuses to do the deed. Rational does not always mean reasonable. In Psychology, to rationalize is to make excuses--it is considered an ego protective device employed commonly to protect the self-concept from admitting in reality, and thus endangering one's beliefs about himself as an integrated personality. Judy: At times ppl are so deceived that they kill in the sincere belief that they are doing God a favor. Blaine: Yet, as Jesus said, they "hated me without a cause." If they had no cause, they must have therefore known who he was. But they chose to get rid of him anyway ... Judy: I do not get the connection above. How is hating him for no apparent reason proof that they actually knew who he was? They rejected his teaching and would not believe him for his works sake. Only a few of them such as Nicodemus who visited him at night with questions understood and believed the rest had darkened hearts and were as blind as bats. Understand that noone is able to come to Jesus unless they are drawn by the Father so apparently these religious men did not qualify. **Blaine: If you won't take my word for it, maybe you will believe Jesus. Judy: I don't take anyone's word for anything when it comes to spiritual truth Blaine. Too much at stake. I've learned the hard way to get before the Lord and check everything presented to me alongside His Truth. Blaine: Again, I refer you to the parable of the laborers in the vineyard. In the parable, the laborers (the Jews--Pharisees, scribes, etc.) knew the heir (Jesus) was the son of the vineyard owner (God). They killed him hoping this would enable them to retain control of the vineyard ( the Jewish religious system, or the populace) for themselves. thus preserving their valued positions in the then current socio-economic status system. Satan has power to tempt people to go for the short-term goals in preference to the long term ones, and they often do cave in. Judy: I'm familiar with the parable in three of the gospels and I know the religious leaders believed he had spoken it against them but I am not convinced that they had any understanding they just knew that he had spoken the parable against them. When the disciples asked Jesus why he taught in parables, his answer is interesting. See Matthew 13:13-16. **Blaine: The Romans held political power, and socio-economic power, but they conceded a lot of this power to the local leaders, in this case, the Jewish leaders. They did this in most of their occupied territories. It was easier to control the people. For the same reason, the US wants to have Iraq controlled by Iraqis, if possible. The word "political" is derived from the same root word as "police." Both refer to the power to enforce law and order.They are not necessarily the same as social and economic power. Blaine: As Jesus said, "What does it profit a man to gain the whole world, but lose his own soul." This is a good question, but the answer is, people often do exactly that, and this is my whole point. These men preferred the short term goal over the longer term one. They sold their souls for a few pieces of silver, so to speak, just as did Judas Iscariot. Judy: The outcome may have been the same but this was not a mental or rational issue Blaine. These are spiritual realities - the Jewish leaders were full of religious spirits and rather than embrace the truth and allow the truth to make them free they rejected the Lord of Glory and chose to remain in their chains of hypocrisy and religious bondage. Their system went down along with the temple. **Blaine: I agree, especially with your word "chose." (:>) Blaine: To use an experience I had once with a woman who confessed she knew Mormonism was true--once having confessed this, she nevertheless refused to be baptized, because, as she later admitted, she didn't want to give up her alcoholic beverages, she didn't want to have to pay a 10% tithe, and most of all she did not want to give up her friends and family, who were all against her becoming a member of the LDS Church. Judy: The woman was apparently confused **Blaine: Apparently? She didn't seem confused to me. Judy: but I can't grieve for her any more than for you and DaveH because if you guys had a genuine revelation of the real Jesus you would burn your books of Mormon, fall at his feet and follow him becoming a sheep rather than a god, because He is in fact the Word of God, the living Word, and the ONLY way to the Kingdom of God and eternal life. **Blaine: I sometimes wonder that you cannot see that your Jesus only wants you to be a sheep groveling at his feet, but my Jesus wants me to be like him. Judy: You would call an act of worship 'grovelling?' Let's get real here.... Blaine: It is the nature of being a father to want his children to do as he says, and to be at least as good as he is--maybe better. Why would Jesus not want the same for us? Do you really conceive of him as being the self-centered tyrant you portray, who just wants worshippers, but to whom he denies the real riches he possesses? Judy: I'm sure you must be describing what you have been taught by the Mormon system is the Jesus that protestants worship Blaine but I don't recognize the picture you paint at all. What self-centered tyrant would humble himself and lay aside the glory he had with the father to take upon himself a body of flesh for the sole purpose of dying naked on a Roman cross so that you and I can be spiritually free? Blaine: I would think such a Jesus would have to be somewhat insecure to be that way. My Jesus, is, by comparison with the Traditional Protestant Belief System conceptualization, a far more secure and generous Jesus. Judy: If he is not the one who died on Calvary to set fallen humanity free then he is a figment of someone's overactive imagination and will do nothing other than waste your time and lead you astray. Blaine: I have to say I like my Jesus best. I don't see a lot of incentive to worship your Jesus. He seems a little stingy to me. (:>) Judy: You say that because you don't know Him. Judy ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
