From: "Blaine Borrowman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Blaine: I agree. It does seem a bit strange. It always has. But apparently not to most of the traditional Protestant churches of the Reformation. They had infants baptized, or Christianed, as they called it, because they thought the sin of Adam was still upon them. Judy: I don't know which 'traditional' Protestant churches you refer to here Blaine and they all have different reasons for doing what they do. The Methodists sprinkle babies and so do the Presbyterians and probably the Episcopal Church. I know that PCA people view it as the parents making covenant for the child... but whatever the reason there is one common basic understanding and this is the fact that every person born into this world by natural generation comes with a spiritual inheritance from the first Adam and this is what the scriptures teach. It is sin singular rather than sins plural which come later.
Blaine: So, Judy, do I take it from your comments below that infants are born with a residual sin, which must then be cleansed by baptism, sprinkling, or "making a covenant with" the child? Judy: Everyone born into this world is born IN SIN and I know this has been pointed out in the past because I've seen the Psalm where David speaks of it posted, probably by Kevin. So far as I know the thinking on infant baptism is that the covenant is with the parents by faith rather than that baptism cleanses. For baptism to do anything other than get the person wet there must be an awareness and cooperation with God and this would be impossible for an infant. Blaine: The Mormon article of Faith you quoted refers to this practice. The BoM speaks even more extensively against infant baptism. Judy: The scriptures do not promote infant baptism Blaine: I agree. It seems to be more of what I have been calling the Traditional Protestant Belief System. Judy: I don't know what that might be because protestants do not have traditional beliefs that they hold on the same level as scripture, that would be the rcc. But Mary and Joseph did bring their infant Jesus to the temple to present him before the Lord and it was understood that they would raise him in the faith which should be the understanding of those who present their babies before the Lord for sprinkling today. Blaine: I agree this is a good thing. LDS infants are presented before the congregation for a blessing, in much the same spirit as Jesus being presented at the temple. But baptism does not occur until the child becomes of age to know the difference between right and wrong, or later. Baptism is seen by the LDS as a covenant to "take upon oneself the name of Jesus Christ, and to become His disciple. This must be a matter of choice, but with an infant, where is the choice? Judy: I assume the BofM has some way other than the blood of Jesus to get rid of the sin babies are born in. Blaine: That is exactly the point, we do not believe this doctrine. Children are born innocent. Judy: Children are not born innocent, David said in Psalm 51:5 "In sin did my mother conceive me" - Same is true for the rest of humanity babies are conceived in sin and born in sin. Blaine: Jesus said, "Suffer little children to come unto me, for of such is the kingdom of God." This refers to their innocent condition. Judy: Not so, rather it refers to their willingness and ability to trust since they had not yet had time to be locked into stiff necked doubt and unbelief. Blaine: How can they be ready for the Kingdom of God, except they be innocent? Judy: He didn't say they were ready for the KOG - he said "of such" which means "of this sort". We need to understand scripture in the light of other scripture rather than through the grid of Joseph Smith's writings. Jesus further explained in Matthew 18:3 where he says "except ye be converted and become as little children (which involves faith and trust); and Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 14:20 "be not children in understanding". So to take just one verse and make these assumptions will lead one into deception. Blaine: If Adam's sin is still there, then they are not "Christianized," and therefore must be condemned to hell. Judy: Noone must be condemned to hell. Jesus died so that all might be saved but they must come to Him on His terms. Scripture tells us that those who do not believe are condemned already and this speaks of everyone no matter what their age. Blaine: Maybe these little children are the ones that Protestant Priest was referring to when he told DaveH's nephew some individuals go to hell in order to glorify God, thus showing his perfect justice? Judy: Protestants usually do not have priests. It was a preacher, most likely Baptist and on TT the consensus is out over what the man actually said. The street preachers think DaveH's nephew mis- understood him. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
