From: Graham Budd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Sun, 2004-02-29 at 18:28, Tom Sathre wrote: > There's 1 such, a WWW site at University of North Carolina/Chapel Hill. There are many, many people of reputation in the Muslim world. I have to conclude that most Muslim people don't consider themselves peaceful.
Hmm... One question: is Christianity a "religion of peace"? If you think how many major wars have been fought - not just by ostensibly Christian nations but for "Christian" purposes - one wonders. For example. Christopher Bainbridge, Archbishop of York (1508-1514) was made cardinal by Julius II and commissioned by him to lead a military expedition against Ferrara in the NE of Italy. I believe he did his job well, actually clambering over the battlements himself in full miltary gear. (Julius II spent his pontificate trying to kick the French out of Italy, rather neglecting other potentially important factoids like...the Reformation being about to get going, and so on). Of course, this caused some raised eyebrows even at the time. But it was by no means unusual. Lifted from a medieval news group, for example: <snip> JT: Surely you don't consider the medieval RCC a good example of the "normal Christian life" Graham... GB: Nearer home, ostensibly Christian countries in the 20th century nuked others and launched disastrous carpet bombing campaigns that slaughtered tens of thousands of civilians. Etc etc etc. JT: Is there any such thing as a "Christian" country? GB: I think there are several factors relevant to the present comment about Islam. The first is simply how much America is hated in the outside world. Much of the population of the European Union are instinctively, even rabidly anti- American, JT: I'm curious about this Graham. Why in your opinion is the outside world so anti-American? I hear it coming from my relatives in Australia; I have a Scots friend here who has regular run-ins with her Glasgow friends for the same reason. GB: and as for the Arab world...America is seen as expansionist and aggressive, a threat to world order and so on and so on. And if you ask Muslims about whether or not Islam is a "religion of peace", I think they would say something like "of course it is; but there comes a point when, in desperation, one has to fight". JT: America may be 'expansionist and aggressive' at one time it was the British Empire who were the aggressive ones and they were not any more popular that the US is today. If Muslims were honest they would admit that their Koran itself promotes holy war, that Mohammed hated Jews and was violently agressive against them in his day. GB: The Islamic world is desperate. It is frightened, I think, of the crushing influence of western culture (for good and bad); and it has never been forced to make the severance between ecclesiastical and secular that was forced on the West and the Orthodox by external circumstance. JT: Many Muslims choose to live in the west for economic reasons and they are free to practice the religion of their choice. They are only limited in that they can not FORCE others into their way of living and believing. GB: Government is generally not of the Swedish social democracy model, and there is a great deal of poverty and powerlessness in the Muslim world. Finally, the Israeli/Palestine conflict weeps pus constantly. Given that this conflict is the explicit creature of the Western world, perhaps the West should try and help solve it rather than just toy with it when it becomes electorally expedient to do so. JT: How is the Israeli/Palestine conflict a creature of the Western world? Who in the West is constantly blowing themselves and their children up to make a point? As Golda Meyer once said "the voilence will stop when the Arabs love their children more than they hate the Jews" GB: Islam may or may not be an intrinsically violent religion; Christianity may or may not be. But what is the difference between its violence and ours? "Ours is in the right" we might say. but if we think that truly, then we are really agreeing that "Christianity is not a peaceful religion". JT: Only when one equates secular Government in the West with Christianity. You may, I don't. This is tantamount to saying a Government is Christian only because it is not Muslim, Jewish, or overtly Pagan; although ppl who practice all of these belief systems may be involved in same Government. Grace and Peace, Judy ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
