[TruthTalk] The Incarnation

[Judy Taylor]

From: "Wm. Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Judy: Adam and Eve were tempted by the lust of the eye; the lust of the flesh; and the boastful pride of life also - does this mean that they had a fallen nature residing in their human flesh also?   Great question, Judy. The answer is No. Yet that does not address our post-fall condition. Adam and Eve did not need a Savior before they fell; they needed one after falling.   jt: My point which I know was obvious is that they were not fallen yet they were tempted and they failed the test. In the same way Jesus was tempted and could have failed the test in the wilderness. He did not have to have a "fallen nature" to be tempted.   In order to get to the problem and save the fallen Adam and Eve, the Savior had to defeat the problem from the side of fallen humanity.   jt: He overcame the same temptations and willingly went to the cross so that his soul became a sacrifice for our sin. He did not need to be part of fallen humanity, in fact this would have been detrimental.   This is what the early fathers were getting at when saying things like, The unassumed is unsaved, and If the whole Adam fell then the whole Adam had to be taken up to be saved. I know the early fathers do not impress you or convince you, but this teaching was everywhere in the early church, yet there was not a single council which addressed it as heresy.   jt: Probably because the councils themselves were off into heresy and the god of this world made them blind to it.   To the contrary Athanasius defended orthodoxy from the side of this aspect of Christ's human nature. Where was the outrage? Was there no one in orthodoxy to take him on? Apollonarius said Christ could not have a human mind because the mind was the root of evil.   jt: Sounds as though Apollonarius was a mess also.    Athanasius said, You miss the point. That is why Christ had to have a human mind, so that he could defeat sin at its root.    jt: Sin came in without a reprobate mind and it can go out without one also. We are to have the mind of Christ and to do this our minds must be renewed.   judyt   "Man in his pomp is like the beasts that perish"   From: Judy Taylor From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Judy:        Sin is a spiritual problem; our mortal flesh (body) can show the evidence and ravages of sin but an inanimate body is basically not the problem.   vince: Yes, sin is a spiritual problem. We can be tempted to sin by the devil, by the world, or by our own sin nature. The sin nature resides in our fallen, mortal flesh. The bible tells us that Jesus suffered all of the temptations that we do, therefore we can conclude that he was tempted by the devil, the world, and the fallen nature residing in His mortal, human flesh. judy: Adam and Eve were tempted by the lust of the eye; the lust of the flesh; and the boastful pride of life also - does this mean that they had a fallen nature residing in their human flesh also?   judyt   God allows the devil to raise up heretics to make his people study