RE: PROBABLE SPAM> Re: [TruthTalk] Marriage, divorce, remarriage, continued]

[ShieldsFamily]

Me, too—but only after I read the six books you already sent me! (Several years from now!) Izzy   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Slade Henson Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 2:50 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: PROBABLE SPAM> Re: [TruthTalk] Marriage, divorce, remarriage, continued]   Thanks, Lance. I'm going to put those books on my want list!   -- slade -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, 14 July, 2004 07:30 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: PROBABLE SPAM> Re: [TruthTalk] Marriage, divorce, remarriage, continued] Slade: Amen again!   Recommended reading:Repenting of Religion: Turning from Judgment to the Love of God Baker, 2004 ----- Original Message ----- From: Slade Henson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: July 14, 2004 05:51 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Marriage, divorce, remarriage, continued]   Have a hard line against divorce, Terry. I wish it didn't have to exist... but don't allow the hard line against the person. Divorce was given to us because we have hard hearts... and our hard hearts causes divorce. Since we cannot get into the hearts and minds of our fellow humans (THANK GOD FOR THAT!!!), we need to give them room to grow and love to heal.   Yeshua seeks the one lost. We need to do the same.     If they divorce for the arms of another person, we cannot allow that kind of behavior in the Ekklesia. THAT is adultery and that needs to be excised from the Ekklesia.   -- slade -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Tuesday, 13 July, 2004 20:35 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: PROBABLE SPAM> [Fwd: Re: [TruthTalk] Marriage, divorce, remarriage, continued] Have you really considered the words of our Savior recorded in Matthew 5:32 Slade?  Jesus did not speak simply to make noise.  His instructions are not to be ignored, or discounted, or modified.  He means exactly what He says.  His sheep hear His voice, and obey.  We have no choice but to live as He instructs us to live.  We must have a hard line against divorce, simply because our God has a hard line against divorce.  That does not make us callous or uncaring or cruel.  It makes us obedient. I hope you can see that. Terry The abusers in the Community of Faith really love this [i.e, "I see no scriptural backing for “emotional damage"] because they can terrorize their families and belittle their wives and they [the family] must submit to it since we no longer live in a nation where we can take the abusive husband/father to the elders in the community for judgment and possible expulsion from the Community for his behavior.   This concept of "legal separation" is unbiblical if taken too far and too long. A man is to leave his wife and give her a Get (bill of divorcement) so that she's free to find another source of comfort. Legal separation merely enslaves the person to a failed marriage.   By hard-lining yourselves against divorce, you make divorce/remarriage the unforgivable sin. What do you do with someone who divorced after their acceptance of the gift of Eternal Life via Messiah yet remarried? Do you throw them out of your church? Some do. Do you banish them to Hell? Some do. Do you belittle them, say harsh things against them, and embarrass them by using them as an example of aberrant behavior? Most do. What do you tell a woman who is battered? Stay with him... just have him arrested and jailed for 10-15 years so she can be miserable, lonely, and a single parent?   I take a bit gentler stance with divorce. However, if I divorce my wife in order to marry someone else, it is disgusting and this leads to adultery.   -- slade -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of ShieldsFamily Sent: Monday, 12 July, 2004 08:48 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Marriage, divorce, remarriage, continued Slade, The only problem I see with this below is that (1) I see no scriptural backing for “emotional damage”, and (2) every time someone is not happy in his/her marriage they think they are being “emotionally abused”.  In many cases they are simply not getting their own way, and are rebelling against the Lord’s discipline in their own life.  I believe that God uses marital difficulties to help us walk in the Spirit, rather than in the flesh.  We have ALL been there at one time or another, haven’t we? And wouldn’t it be a shame if we used that opportunity to declare ourselves free to take another spouse? We had better be sure the Lord has declared our marriage vows broken, and not just ourselves. Better to live alone than to take the chance of living in adultery. On the other hand, if I were being screamed at or insulted constantly, or my children were, I don’t think I’d stick around long.  I’m sure there are cases when there is no sane way to deal with the hatred, and remarriage might be allowed by the Lord then.  It would take a lot of prayer.  I know in my former marriage it had gotten just about that bad before I got solid proof of adultery.  I was about at the breaking point and considering legal separation, because I knew I didn’t want to spend the rest of my life being treated so badly for no reason.  The kinder I was to him, the angrier he reacted.  The hatred was palpable.  I afterwards learned that when someone is cheating on you they become very angry with you because they must make YOU the bad guy to justify their sin.  The cheater knows he/she is lying, cheating, using pornography and drugs/alcohol, or whatever.  They can’t deal with owning up to their guilt, so they project their guilt onto the very person they are abusing.  I think most emotional abuse is due to this. Or perhaps the abuser is just suffering from acute depression and needs medical treatment.  Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Slade Henson Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 3:54 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Marriage, divorce, remarriage, continued I have a bit of a differing opinion than most... perhaps. For me, the key is in the word "covenant." When a man beats his wife or emotionally damages her, he has broken the covenant he has made with her and she is free to leave. If the woman does likewise or is not sexually loyal to him, she has broken the covenant as well. I think it's unfair for a person to be stuck with an abusive spouse without being free to receive relief and perhaps a bit of happiness from someone who can treat them with the respect and love they deserve. -- slade -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Sunday, 11 July, 2004 22:50 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Marriage, divorce, remarriage, continued [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--> <!--[endif]--> Well, I have to admit, I jsut learned something knew (to me).   The history on the death penalty for the Jewish people gives a meaningful perspective to the teaching of Jesus on the issue of divorce and remarriage.   Very interesting.   What about physical abuse.   You mary a man or a woman (depending, of course, as to whether you are a woman or a man  -- counter to popular opinion  --  and you "realize" that your new partner is physically abusive  -- perhaps dagerously so.   Don't get me wrong, here.   I am not arguing for any one point  -- just asking your opinion.  JD