Jt:Do I then understand you to be
saying:
1. All (all of humanity over all time) are drawn by
the Father. (this would suggest that, theoretically at any rate, everyone could
have responded positively)
What scripture says is
that those who have come have done so because they were drawn by the Father and
I don't speculate.
2. Some among this 'all' respond, for reasons
unknown to anyone, negatively.
The ones who do not respond do
not choose God's way they remain deceived, held captive by the evil one to
do his will.
3. We play a part in our own salvation (I assume
also in the retaining of that salvation) through (1) Deciding to say 'yes' (2)
continuing to say 'yes' through our obedience (IFF at any point we fall into a
protracted 'no' then, our salvation is forever lost Is this your understanding.
Not exactly Lance; the God who
called us is able to keep us; I don't get intospeculating about lost,
saved, lost, saved... jt
Those who heed the call of the
Spirit Lance - you will be drawn by one thing or another;
some
are drawn by cords of iniquity
and others are drawn to God's Truth by the Spirit of Christ. jt
Jt:It's your understanding of the word 'drawn'
that I'd appreciate.
They don't exist Lance - everyone is called, but not everyone
responds. Why do you think Jesus
wept over Jerusalem?
Wisdom dances in the streets saying "come in here, come in here" but
alas
the call of Hollywood is
more seductive. So..... "Many are called but few are chosen" because
to be
chosen we must choose Him...
rather than the world, the flesh, and the counsel of the devil.
Jt:What of those who have NOT been drawn by the
Father?
It's a closed circle
Lance. Noone comes to the Father unless they come through Jesus who is the
door and
noone comes to Jesus
except it is given him by the father (Jn 6:65). IOW the Holy Spirit gives
spiritual life (quickeneth), and without the work of the Holy Spirit noone
can even see the need for it (Jn 14:17). All spiritual life begins and
ends with God. He reveals truth to us, lives within us, then he enables us
to respond to that truth.
Amen! God's covenant is fulfilled in Jesus
(the obedient Israelite).
'those who come to Him have been drawn by the
Father' Could you kindly tell me what this passage means to
you?
God's covenant (via Abraham) is unilateral
and, not bilateral.
jt: God's covenant (via
Abraham) is Jesus and those who come to Him have been drawn by the
Father.
I don't see anything
"unilateral" in all the gospels. Counting the cost is a scriptural
principle. judyt
In a message dated
8/16/2004 12:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
The above is TFT's "incarnational teaching" Yes
Jesus is the sacrifice for all time but God is a Covenant God and
Jesus is given as a Covenant to the people. Covenant agreements
involve the fidelity both parties and we enter the process of
salvation so that we might overcome as He overcame. Yes it is all His
grace, and it is all His power - but we have our part in the process
if we have repented from dead works so that we may serve the Living
God. I'm not satisfied with a "form of godliness" are
you?.
What about the fellow in Ro 2:12-16? The text
presents one who is not a hearer of the law -- of any law.
But he instinctively fulfills the law and with that activity, can be
saved by Christ. The text does not present one who has
accepted Christ as his personal savior or held himself obedient to an
ethical code of some sort.
jt: The fellow
in Romans 2:12 is a New Covenant believer a person who has God's
law written upon the tables of his heart by the indwelling Spirit as
Per Jeremiah 31:33. A gentile who was not raised under the Jewish
law. The book of Romans is addressed to: "All that be in Rome
beloved of God, called to be saints" IOW it is to God's people
in Rome.
Scripture everywhere teaches that God cares more for the
condition of the heart than anything. Somewhere in this
"inwardness" is the image of God spoken of in Genesis.
jt: I agree
about the condition of the heart being important to God.
However, scripture also teaches us that the human heart is deceitful
above all things and desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9); this is not
the image of God. Jesus is the image of God. He said "If you
have seen Me you have seen the Father" and it is not until we are
conformed to His image (which is the purpose of salvation) that we
return to the image of God spoken of in Genesis.
Grace and
Peace,
Judy
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