Slade,
You can accuse me of nit picking. I only tell
you the truth. The 613 points are paraphrased interpretations of scripture
by Judaism at best. They may or may not be the actual commandments
from the scripture. The rigors of tradition have a form of religion and
its own sense of righteousness. But traditions are niether the
commandments nor the righteousness of God.
Take for instance # 76
76 To say the Shema twice daily, Deut. 6:7
This is not a law of God. It does not resemble
its scriptural reference. This point of Judaism may
actually require vain repetitions. The actual verse commands me
to teach my children the scriptures in various locations and times.
DEU 6:7 And thou shalt teach
them diligently unto thy children, and
shalt talk
of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when
thou
walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou
risest
up.
Now take #79
79 To wear tefillin on the head Deut. 6:8
Certainly the commands are so near and dear that they
are as an adornment that one may wear on the forehead. But this says
to wear leather cubes containing scriptural texts inscribed on parchment on the
head literally. This was not the command of God:
DEU 6:8 And thou shalt bind
them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine
eyes.
Jesus strongly rebuked those who wore such
tokens for show, saying, "..all their works
they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge
the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the
chief seats in the synagogues..." (Matthew 23:1-3,5-6 KJV)
Jesus warned about the dangers of replacing God's
Law, or attempting to obey God's Law with one's own laws and traditions, saying,
"This people draweth nigh unto me with
their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from
me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines
the commandments of men ... Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not
planted, shall be rooted up." (Matthew 15:8-9,13 KJV)
Jesus obeyed the law perfectly in every way,
and was the perfect sacrifice. He did not wear such physical things as an
example to us. He lived our example in thought and deed. His life
demonstrates what the commandment of Deut. 6:8 means.
Marlin
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 6:09
PM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] 613
Commands
C'mon, Marlin, you're nit picking here. Accuracy is not necessary when
there are a lot of different ways to translate a passage. As far as#1, the
first commandment IS to know God. You just have a different perspective on
it.
#2
is just another way of looking at Ex 20.3
#3
is not a dogmatic statement in Hebrew. Where is the verb after HEAR O
Israel??? Find it and perhaps you'll understand.
These are not newly invented commands. They are synopses of Scripture.
If the author had placed the whole translated passage I get the sense you'd
still find fault with it because the rendering doesn't fit with your personal
favorite translation.
It's
all Scripture. Not a SINGLE ONE originates outside
Scripture.
Let us start with number 1:
1 To know there is a God, EXO 20:2 I
Now the scripture merely makes a statement, not a command, "To
know...".
EXO 20:2 I [am] the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land
of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Now, number 2:
2 Not to entertain thoughts of other gods besides Him, EXO
20:3
The scripture clearly says not to "have other Gods...," but
Judaism says not to "entertain thoughts of other gods...". This is not
accurate.
EXO 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Number 3:
3 To know that He is one Deut. 6:4
The scripture merely makes a declaration here.
DEU 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our
God [is] one LORD:
number 4:
4 To love Him Deut. 6:5
This is an abbreviated summary of the command to love God
three ways. We have the first command
of Judaism that resembles a direct command in the
scripture.
DEU 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD
thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy
might.
I could go on. The point is that there are plenty
of beautiful commands clearly in the scripture. It is not necessary to
invent new commands that may be obliquely related to ideas expressed in the
scripture as Judaism has done. The commands of God are not the
commands of Judaism.
Marlin
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 11:02
PM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] 613
Commands
Thank you for your post, Marlin. Now, if you'd be so kind, please
return to that list at http://www.aish.com/literacy/mitzvahs/The_613_Commandments.asp and please list me the
commands that are NOT found in Scripture. When you find this exercise
fruitless, please understand that several commands are REPEATED... easily
explaining this 659 number.
-- slade
Dear friends,
I was set straight about "the 613 commandments" by
a friend and brother. He sent me this link and
admonition:
The trappings of Judaism are a poor substitute
for having the indwelling of God's spirit and being cleansed by the
sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
I thought that the 613 commandments had
been derived from the scriptures alone. This is because a friend
of mine had faithfully identified 659 identifiable commands from the
scripture before, and later revised his study to identify many
more.
I had assumed that Jewish
practitioners had gone through a similar faithful study to arrive
at their number. When I saw the list posted at the above site, I
found that some were and many were not derived out of the
scripture. The 613 laws of Judaism contain some laws summarized
from the scriptures, but many of their laws are merely Jewish traditions
that use some scriptural reference that may be somewhat related to the
idea, but are not laws recorded in the scripture. According to one
source, Judaism has 2800 other rules.
I wanted to let you know that I was wrong
when I thought the so called "613 commandments" were from the
scripture. Some are, but others are not.
Love,
Marlin
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004
5:24 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] 613
Commands
Hi Judy:
613 commands in the Torah, yes. Directly from
God, not man. Why? Because God says Be Holy, because I AM holy.
This is HOW a holy, set-apart people live. This is how you deal
with this, this is how you deal with that. God has a whole system of
government set up. Gee, too bad we didn't follow it in the first
place. Maybe then our courts wouldn't be as messed up as they
are.
I don't understand WHY people freak out over
613 commands. They're reiterated in the newer Testament. In fact, the
newer Testament contains 1,050 commands! Yeshua made the commands
fuller, harder even.
Yes, there are 613 commands. However, YOU
don't have to follow each of them. There are commands for men, which
you're not a man, so they don't apply. I know you're not a
Levitical priest, so, whack away a whole SLEW of the 613. Let's
see...how about instructions (law) for you in particular since you're
a woman.....Not to get personal, but I believe you're an older
woman, correct? Well, then you can knock out the laws for Niddah (the
monthly cycle) as well as the child bearing
laws.
When you were raising your children, didn't
you have House Rules? Why did you give the Rules of the House to your
children? To keep them safe? To keep order? To protect? God did the
same thing for us. He's a loving Father who wants to keep His children
safe and holy. Did you ever give your children a rule that they didn't
understand? You knew the reasoning behind it and it was probably a
good reason. God does the same thing. Every single one of the 613 fall
under TWO categories. Every single law of the 613 have to do with
either A. Loving God, or B. Loving your Neighbor. Funny, our house
rules are just like that. I bet yours were, too.
Kabbalah is something different, Judy. It's a
much deeper spiritual application. I would not suggest reading it.
There are also two different types of Kabbalah. God Himself says the
laws He gives are "not far from you". It is NOT impossible. Maybe we
should list all the laws and see exactly how many apply. Would that
help?
Being worn out due to learning a new one
every day is something Paul was attempting for others coming in. It's
what he speaks of in Acts...Kay's paraphrase....
Paul and the Council: Okay, we've got to DO
something with these people coming in. We can't fellowship with them.
They can't come into the sanctuary. In order to be able to do
that...we have to give them these four rules....don't fornicate,
don't eat strangled foods, don't worship other idols....they'll be
coming to the synagogue every Shabbat. They'll be hearing the Torah
when they come each week. It takes us three years to read the whole
Torah. They can handle little bits of it each week. They'll learn.
Slow, but sure, they'll build up and they'll learn. That's what we can
do with them! Wow, we solved our problem!
I've got lots of people in for the weekend. I
won't be on much. Shall we look at ALL the laws and see what they are
about? See which ones apply and then maybe we'll have a good number?
Maybe after that, we should check out the 1050 in the Newer Testament
and compare when we're done with that.
Kay
Once more I stand corrected.
I was under the impression we were all talking about the same
thing. Now I see we are
not - 613 Commandments, you've got to be kidding? Last I
heard mention of this was through Ellsman..........
So I did a search and found
"Ask Moses" (modern day you understand) who tells me there are 248
positive and 365 negative commandments for a total of 613.
What a load whereas Jesus says "My yoke is easy and my burden is
light" so I would much rather learn from Him.
I'm sorry Jeff and Slade as
I thought we were talking about the same thing. When I say Torah I
mean the writings of Moses as revealed by the Spirit of God
without all of the add ons and extras. I see where the
Kaballah (that occult business Madonna is into) is attached to
this in some way also which further complicates things.
One
poor soul who is just
beginning to learn of Jewish heritage wrote that every day they
were learning about another law or commandment and they were worn
out and overwhelmed by all the mitzvot!
Whew!! Kay, do you do
all this as well??
|