RE: [TruthTalk] Gender differences

Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:19:56 -0800

Not all men have done this.  Christ in a man makes him into a “real” man (not a Girlie Man!) This may also be assisted by an encouraging woman (rather than a whiner, complainer, controller).  We’ve all seen both types of men and both types of women. I am so content when my husband is strong spiritually as well as every other way. (Even when we don’t agree, I’m glad he has to take the blame if he’s wrong! J ) Izzy

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 1:02 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Gender differences

 

Amen ladies!!!!!!! Please keep this thread alive. I'd love to 'listen in' on more. Men (we) have 'vacated' and women (you) have had to occupy that 'vacated' space.

 

 

Sent: November 17, 2004 13:37

Subject: [TruthTalk] Gender differences

 


 

From: Susan Petersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Yeah, Judy!!!! We agree. I am exicted about this.

 

jt: That's good Suzy - me too!

 

Love is genderless. I also believe that women should not teach unless there is no man that is qualified to do so. Deborah was made a judge because no man was qualified to fill that position. It was supposed to be a slap in the face for the men of that time. It was God's way of saying if you don't step up to the plate, I'll put someone else in who will. As for David's comments, I agree with some of them. I do believe that men have to be more manlike.

 

jt: I would say it depends what one means by "manlike" To me 'manlike' nothing like Mel Gibson playing Wm Wallace or Arnold S. of CA because all that is outward. I am drawn to inward or 'spiritual' strength. Apparently Paul was not too impressive outwardly and neither was Jesus according to the prophecy of Isaiah.

 

In churches you do see pastors not preaching on a certain subject because a select few have decided what you can preach about and what you can't. I went to a church like that. God help anyone who dare make someone feel convicted about something. Let's just stick to the easy stuff and never grow to the next level of your faith.

 

jt: People pleasers and there sure are a lot of those. Some congregations won't put up with anything but an ear tickler.

 

But I don't neccessarily agree that it is the women who are totally responsible for men not being more manlike. I am sure they have played a part in that process. Why did the men not stand up? Why did they give in to such a pressure that they allowed themselves to be backed into a corner? And could they have possibly be put in that corner by other men?

 

jt: They come by 'blaming the women' honestly - it goes all the way back to the first Adam and is part of the fallen nature of mankind in general. There are too many women who are left with the responsibility to be the spiritual head of their family through no fault of their own.  Some are widowed by death or abandonment and others are spiritual widows so these women have to take on what God did not originally equip them for - but it doesn't have to be a total disaster. Timothy's mother and grandmother did a pretty good job of it.

 

Paul was a manly man and he speaks of love being gentle and kind, not jealous etc... in First Corinthians. If men to be more manlike than they need to start loving properly.

 

jt: We agree wholeheartedly again Susan - this is getting better and better :)  ATST too many men are wounded and need healing themselves. I've heard that up to 90% of men in our churches have not knows the love of a natural father. They may have had fathers who loved them but they were so stoic that they could not tell them that or give them a hug... this is more fallout from generational sin.

 

Please do not take this as man bashing on my part. And I don't believe that all men suffer from the problem that you have discussed. Suzy

 

jt: I don't believe you would ever be mistaken for a 'man basher' Suzy. I see what you are saying and think that very few men have escaped and none of us know how to love as we should - but we can learn...

 

 

 



> From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Judy wrote:
> Being 'easily offended" happens to both men and
> women David and has
> nothing to do with feminized conversations
> and emasculated men. Do love and good manners have
> to be genderized?
> >From whence are the roots of such
> a concept as this?
>
> If you were a man, you might understand this better.
>  To tell you the
> truth, you are more a man than many men I have met,
> so this puts you at a
> disadvantage in considering this question.  In
> talking about this to you,
> I feel kind of like someone making a point to an
> Olympic female weight
> lifter that women tend to be physically weaker than
> men.  If she is
> stronger than most men, it might not make a whole
> lot of sense to her.
>
> jt: This morning my car quit on the highway and so
> did our cell phone; I
> sure wasn't making like an Olympic female weight
> lifter out there. It was
> a long way back to the gas station so I prayed for a
> good Samaritan and
> the Lord sent one - a Ditch Witch man with a working
> cell phone who said
> he wouldn't like for his wife to be out there on the
> highway... it's such
> a blessing when God provides.
>
> Historically, our rules of manners have come from
> women.  We invariably
> turn to the female sex for sensitivity about
> politeness and manners.
> Surely the phrase "Miss Manners" means a little more
> than "Mr. Manners"
> to you.
>
> jt: I look more to Jesus than to Miss Manners for
> sensitivity and
> empathy. He is the one who raised the status of the
> women of his
> generation by allowing Mary to sit at his feet and
> learn which was
> unheard of in Judaism - since He is our example for
> life and godliness
> why would gender be a big deal?
>
> The problem is that when women determine the rules
> of etiquette in
> dialogue, we get away from the kind of dialogue that
> the apostles often
> engaged in and also taught their disciples to
> engage. The dialogue of men
> were so heated, that Paul instructed Timothy: 1
> Timothy 2:11-12 (11) Let
> the woman learn in silence with all subjection. (12)
> But I suffer not a
> woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man,
> but to be in
> silence.
>
> jt: I don't understand the above instruction in the
> same way David.  My
> understanding is that Timothy was pastoring in
> Ephesus and they had a
> problem there with a type gnosticism where the women
> would receive all
> the revelations and they would lead the men; this is
> also why he makes
> the point about the woman being deceived and being
> saved through
> childbirth.
>
> Isaiah also uses gender to describe something not
> honoring to God. Isaiah
> 3:12 (12) As for my people, children are their
> oppressors, and women rule
> over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause
> thee to err, and
> destroy the way of thy paths.
>
> jt: Yes it sounds like chaos when children become
> oppressors and I don't
> believe women are to rule either.
>
> If apostles and prophets make gender differences,
> then so can we.
>
> jt: I don't deny that men and women are different
> David; my point is that
> love and good manners should be genderless, that is,
> both men and women
> who are 'in Christ' should be walking in them.
>
> What I see in our culture is that men have been
> pushed to the back to be
> quiet.  Most churches are filled with more women
> than men, and many
> church youth groups have more women than men because
> men are not allowed
> to be men. Men are constantly rebuked for exercising
> their masculine
> qualities of vigor, integrity, courage, boldness,
> and ambition.  Rather
> than directing their natural gifts in profitable
> ways, men are generally
> taught that such virtues are evil.  If they stand up
> and rebuke evil,
> someone tells them to be quiet and stop being rude.
> If a man uses logic
> to dispel a false belief, he is told that he is
> losing many of his
> congregation (who happen to be women and children).
> The mouths of men
> who speak as men, reproving, rebuking, and
> exhorting, are constantly
> being stopped. 
>
> jt: This is interesting David. I've never ever seen
> evil rebuked in
> Church circles and I've been in many of them. In
> fact most evangelical
> Churches that I've been a part of only allow men in
> leadership and the
> pastors have all been male.  There are a lot of
> women in congregations
> which is a shame but I always thought it was because
> the men would not
> take their rightful place as spiritual leader in the
> home.
>
> This is a major reason that secularism has taken
> over the Judiciary and
> our educational system.  It is a reason that
> homosexual rights are
> hijacking the institution of marriage.  It is a
> reason that abortion has
> become so prevalent.  Men
> need to be comfortable being men and they need to
> stand up against the
> atrocities of our culture.
>
> jt: Now how did we get from the Church to the
> secular?  I agree there is
> a problem but don't believe the women should be
> blamed for that,
> especially not for the homosexual problem when the
> RCC with their
> completely male hierarchy is so full of them. Why
> arn't men comfortable
> being men?  Could it be that their consciences are
> not clear before the
> Lord?
>
> Maybe Lance can help us out here with a book he may
> have read called
> "Wild at Heart."  I haven't had time to read it, but
> I have had many
> bring up this book when I have taught on gender
> differences and the need
> for men to be comfortable being masculine.
>
> jt: "Wild at heart?" Sounds like whoever wrote that
> needs to be born
> again and receive a new heart ...
>
> Peace be with you.
> David Miller.
>
>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with
> salt, that you may
> know how you ought to answer every man."
> (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
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