Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me

[Knpraise]

In a message dated 1/10/2005 7:11:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Ah, I didn't know that he wasn't a part of mainstream Pentecostals. How many Pentecostal sects are there? As many as Baptists? Or what some would call Messianics? What's the difference between Pentecostals and the Four Square people?
 
Kay

The Baptist have the Exclusion Market cornered,  I think.    There are several kinds of pentecostals  --   but the divisions are more matters of degree than fights that end in exclusion and division.    You seldom hear of a split with Pentecostals.   Oneness holiness types (UPC and such  -----------    United Pentecostal Church) think they are the only ones saved   --------    but the rest of us are pretty accepting of the differences.   Holiness, prosperity,  and the rapture teachings are the things Pentecostals share to one degree or another   -----------    Gifts and Spirit baptism are common to all.   Oneness -  Jesus only --is not a Pentecostal doctrine but the teaching has it's pentecostal fan base.   These folks are not a part of the movement and their numbers are extremely small. 

Assembly of God,  Four Square, and Church of God are your primary denominations, each very accepting of the others.  This summer, I will enter a PhD program at an Assembly school.  It will be accepted throughout the movement.     The movement, if you will, is also heavily influenced by personalities who minister in a para-church type circumstance, different from non- Pentecostal types. 

The biggest difference I see,  an important difference to me, is the belief that God "visits" us in the display of miracles   (not as many as we claim but more than most think),  the infilling or baptism of the Spirit  (same thing)   -   with or without the evidences of tongues   (my wife speaks in tongues,   I, as you might expect, do not.   When brethren ask if I  speak in tongues,   I often tell them  "Yes, I call it ENGLISH   !!!!!!!!!!!  "  --  all with a big smile on my rather roughedly handsome face.) ,  and confimations in prophacy and signs.  

Sounds wierd,  I know,  but there is more of a practicality to all of the above than you might suppose   --   and many of you on TT have shared/similar experiences but with differing descriptions or by different names.    


A most memorable visitation/confirmation was the day I decided that water baptism did not save (in a unique and universal way).   I had been dealing with the matter, just me myself and the Devil's Advocate  (me again).   I was at the Berean Bookstore,  took the afternoon off to make this decision.   I was lead to Gals 3:26,27  -   a big big passage for us baptism types  "know ye not that as many of you as have been baptised into Christ have put on Christ?"   While reading this passage,  I came to the rather startled decision that this passage was not talking about "water baptism" at all.  Rather, it was talking about IMMERSION INTO CHRIST HIMSELF.      I am not one who deserts his faith.........no matter what.  But suddenly, there it was  -   something in my mind, a thought, that was pusing me away from the water  --  forcing me to change a very significant belief.     If that highlighted "translation" were true,  IMMERSION INTO CHRIST HIMSELF,  then Paul was not speaking of salvation in terms of a historic event so much as he was speaking of conduct that could only be described as an immersion into the Son.   Wow  !!!!!!!!!!   I was afraid to accept this very different understanding.    Afraid I was about to do harm to the gospel message itself. 

I got up and began just wondering around the book store  --  totally focused on this discision about to be made  (some would call this "prayer.")   No one to talk to.   No help.   Just me and my poor old dumb self.    I rounded the end of one of the book racks and started down yet another aisle.   I looked to my left  --  a long rack of books for sale.   Sitting face out, on the top shelf was a little book  -----   the title:   "The practice of the presence of the Lord"  by "brother Lawrence."  For "some reason,''    I went over and took the book in hand.   On the back cover were these words shouting at me as if it were the voice of God Himself :  "Brother Lawrence was a man of humble beginnings who discovered the greatest secret of living in the Kingdom of God here on earth.   It is the art of 'practicing the presense of God in one single act that does not end.'"   If that is not the same as "know ye not that as many of you as have been immersed into Christ himself have put on Christ,"  then I do not know how to read.   Anyway, it was the same to me.  A visitation.    Not too weird?  That is my word for such events.   I like the sound.   It is my way of admitting that God has a personal interest in me and that, at times, He pays me a visit  -   even finds ways of talking to me.   One of my kids ask me, one day,  "Dad, how come God doesn't just talk to us like -- you know, normal?"   My answer  -  "because the still small voice does not run the risk of SACRING THE HELL OUT OF YOU."  

But He spoke to me that day  -   never read that little book   -  put it on my shelf in plan view so I will never forget.  Have read the back cover many a time.  

Nappy time

John the Beloved  -----------------------------out!!!!!!!