Re: [TruthTalk] Truth as viewed by one of the greats

[Judy Taylor]

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 21:11:04 -0700 "Bill Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Thanks, Izzy. Yeah, I hear you and agree with much of what you say here. My problem is, I don't really know where my agreement with you shifts and turns into disagreement, and how I should understand that "leaving off." Did the Spirit lead me to some truth and you to some truth, but he does not lead us together to all truth? Until Christians can agree across the board on at least the important doctrines -- what they are, and how they ought to be interpreted -- I am reluctant to say that I am the one with the Spirit, i.e., the God's eye view, but you, Izzy (or John, or Judy, or David, or Lance, etc.) are not. If we have this God's eye view of reality that you and David are suggesting, why can't we, those of us who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, not agree upon what we are looking at? I know that pride has something to do with it, but I do not know how much, nor do I always know who it is who is being prideful. I don't want to be prideful, and when I realize that I am, I repent, but sometimes I am prideful without even knowing it. I just don't want to be resigned to thinking that I am the only one who sees the truth from above the trees. There must be something else going on here. That is what John and Debbie and G are talking about. Bill   Excuse my butt in Izzy and Bill - I think we have some helpful examples in scripture, the first being Peter's epiphany where Jesus told him flesh and blood had not revealed this to him, it had come from the Fr in heaven. The second is Paul's gospel which he said did not come by way of man. God revealed it to him although he no doubt had a copy of the scriptures and as a Pharisee he had been trained in the law of Moses. Without Christ however, the Bible is a closed book as Izzy points out - The Jews even today have a veil when reading Moses which veil is taken away in Christ.  IMO doctrines of men are every bit as bad as their veil because they blind people, divide, and conquer.  What happened between the first Church Council in Acts 15:28,29 and the Council of Nicea?  The first trusted the Holy Spirit to guide the baby believers at Antioch; whereas the second took a control and responsibility that was not God given and which transformed a God inspired organism into a man made organization with creeds, rituals, and religious trappings - mainly pagan. judyt   Either I have missed the context of John's comment, David, or you have missed the context of one or both of our statements. I am saying that none of us has a God's-eye view of reality. We may have very good, spiritual, reasons to interpret reality in one way and not another, but we do this by participating IN that reality, not by standing above it.   Bill   Excuse my butt-in, Bill, as DavidM can answer for himself better than I can.  But I believe that the Holy Spirit does provide us with God’s perspective. (Above the trees, in the trees, under the trees, etc.) If you are saved I am sure you remember how the Bible was a closed book before you received the Holy Spirit’s indwelling, and how afterwards it was an open book.  I’m sure you remember how before you were saved your views were indistinguishable from the rest of the world, and how now your beliefs/values are entirely changed.  I’m sure you must know how you used to see everything from a selfish perspective, and now you see everything colored by what God thinks about it.  Get my drift? None of these things required a consensus from other people.  Izzy