John, this is really good. I don't know if I
would call confession, prayer, and repentance "substitutes" for sacrificial
offering, but I certainly understand what you are attempting to convey. I
notice something in your use of Heb 10.14 that may even strengthen your
case. The word for "He has perfected"
(teteleioken) is
a perfect active indicative 3rd person singular, a verb which describes
a completed aspect*; but the word for "those who are sanctified"
(hagiazomenous) is a present passive
participle, the voice of which is not reflected in the translation you
are using. Hence this verse should probably read something like "by one
offering he has perfected forever those who are being
sanctified." Now think of this: the "forgiveness" of verse 18 is as definite
and complete as the "one offering" of verse 14 (as you have stated
-- thus the cessation of
sacrificial offerings), and this because that one offering is Jesus
Christ, he who has perfected forever those who are in the
process of being sanctified.
I wonder if Paul knew about
these Gk verbs.... they could have saved him a lot of
grief.
Here's the point, John (and I know you agree
with this), forgiveness does not ebb and flow depending upon where we are in
the process of sanctification. Prayer, confession, and repentance, while
important, speak not to whether we are forgiven, but rather to the quality and beauty of our relationship with the Father,
through the Son, in the Holy Spirit; your words speak to fellowship, in other words, and not to
justification.
What if you are out there in
fornication does sin no longer cause a relationship problems with the
Father o we no longer need clean hands and a pure heart to ascend His
holy hill?
Moreover, sanctification, while yet unfinished, is also
as definite as the one offering of Christ Jesus, and this
because in him we have been perfected (and
I read this as much more than a legal imputation or declaration; i.e.,
even though there is an already-but-not-yet at play here, it is nonetheless
an ontological fact:
in Christ we have been perfected). And because we are in Christ
-- and this is the exciting part: -- our
sanctification is as if it were perfected; said another
way, its end is as definite and absolute as
it would be if it were finished even as we speak.
Then none of this involves
faith? How sad Paul didn't know about it. Can you imagine that
Paul actually believed that he could be a "castaway"
himself if he didn't keep his body under - after preaching to other
ppl?" (1 Cor 9:27) also that Paul taught ppl to "Mortify their members
and put off some things?" (Col 3:5)
And so, the passive
voice of the participial phrase "those who are being sanctified" is
therefore crucial in our understanding of this: we
participate or fellowship in our sanctification, but we do not
produce it; we are being sanctified by a sovereign act of
God. He is the active agent; hence its
outcome is certain. Paul says it like this: "For I am confident of this very thing, that he who began [this]
good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus" (Phi 1.6).
We will be sanctified, and this is for sure, because it is God who
sanctifies us.
So 1 Cor 9:27 is a
mistake? What about Romans 8:13 "If you live after the flesh you will
die?" and Romans 6:17,18 where Paul talks about obeying from the heart and
becoming servants of righteousness,
You say Fellowship is where it's
at - huh!!
Now, does that produce hope and assurance, or
what?
I had hope anyway
which rests in the truth of God's Word (in English). Greek verbs
do nothing for me.
I do understand that we have
been saved, are being saved (sanctification), and will be saved but
your
certainty seems a bit premature
to me. If it were that certain there would be no warnings in scripture
and
there are plenty of
them.
Bill
* In Greek
grammar, "aspect" indicates what type of action a verb
describes. A verb which occurs in the "perfect aspect" indicates
an action that was brought to its full completion but has
effects carrying on into the present (See Mounce, 119-120). If I need to
explain further I will (not that you will need it, but maybe others
will).
________________________________________________________________________________________
John writes > In
Hebrews 10.16ff, there is a presumption by Divine revelation
-- that sin is only forgiven in the offering of sacrifice.
We do not catch the importance of this fact. ONLY IN THE
OFFERING OF A SACRIFICE IS THERE TO BE FORGIVENESS. That is why
sacrifice has been with us from the beginning,
post-garden. When Jeremiah predicts that "....I will
remember their sins no more," he was, in fact, speaking of the
sacrifice that was offered once and for all time: "For by one
offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified"
(10:14). Confession does not secure forgiveness. Prayer
does not. Repentance does not
--------------- these are presented to us in scripture as
substitutes for sacrificial offering. "Now where there is
forgiveness of these things (full and completed), there is no
longer any offering for us" (10:18).
