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JD, your affirmation is most bracing.
Thanks.
Debbie
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 9:52
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] the document
known as Seven
See, this is what kills me about
me. I could have written something similar except for one
thing -- I am a "liberal" wrapped in the emotional butt
kicking blanket of a red neck conservative (like the
Fundies). Plenty of patience for most - little
patience for David and those who seek my harm. I am constantly
reminded that my "suffering" is not the shedding of blood, or anywhere
close. More than a working doctrine, a biblical and
theological model that gives place and explanation for the written
Message, the Righteous and Growing Triad shows me, almost daily,
how not to react to the Fundies, bless there little pea picken
hearts.
David -----------------------------
you are respected as a child of God by most, if not all, on this
forum. We listen and receive into our lives criticism from those
whom we respect for one reason or another. What is missing,
and what is apparently no even desired, is a kind and loving respect for those
who are not in your camp (and I have the same problem.) You are
out there rebuking your heart out while ignoring that very ministry
(from God, I might add) here on this forum.
It is clear to
me the difference, one of the differences, between our nature and the Divine
nature ----------- it is the difference between a
ministry of separation and one of inclusion. It is the difference
between personal ministries and Divine ministries. It is the
difference between imperative - based change and change caused by the
indwelling.
Anyway -- those words have more
meaning to me than others, no doubt. But listen to what Debbie has
written. And note this, David ..... it has 7
components !! Henceforth, I will refer to said
document as "Seven." -- a perfectly stated
response.
Jd
In a
message dated 4/22/2005 9:05:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Hi David,
1. Why "flux": As has already
been established ad nauseam, I disagree with you about biblical
interpretation: I think it happens, and you don't. (Or is it that you think
you always interpret aright? I forget.) You think it's possible to be
certain about most everything, and I don't. You think that's the point, and
I don't. I sometimes change my mind, and yours is immutable.
2. Teachings of men on par
with HS: Certainly not those of men. (Oh--did you mean "people"?) But
seriously: see #1.
3. Comparing self with others:
I acknowledge this was not explicit in your post. Sorry. I inferred from
your not wanting to be Caroline on judgment day that you preferred to be
yourself on that occasion, as you would fare better. If that's not the case,
who would you like to be? And as for such a concept never entering your
mind: "empty words". It is abundantly clear from many of your posts that you
consider yourself more righteous than those you are addressing. And perhaps
you are, after all. Otherwise you would be busy taking logs out of your
eyes.
4. Extremely embarrassed to
come before the Lord and have this brought up: (a) We are before the Lord at
all times. (b) Do you really think he is logging incidents and shelving the
ledger each time in order to bring it all up later? Forgive me, David, but
your god sounds very much like the Accuser! God's agenda in saving us is to
change us into the people he wants--as soon as possible. Throughout our
lives, God draws our attention to things appropriate to our stage, and may
take startling measures to do so when necessary (see various posts of
Caroline's). The rest of what you say, about confessing and repenting, seems
to suggest you agree with this. Why would he be saving it up in order to
nail us with it? See #1. (c) There is absolutely no difference between
"#($&%" and "You espouse a doctrine of demons" or "You are of your
father the devil". The latter are just "good KJV biblical lingo". Besides,
she wasn't saying it. She was quoting it. :-)
5. Joking/unconcerned about
sin: No one here is. It's just that you regularly mis-hear people. If it
"seems" to you that believing we are already saved is making us apathetic,
all I can say is, things are simply not what they seem to you. Besides, as
to already being saved, and your difficulty hearing people: have you noticed
John's posts about "have been saved", "are being saved", "will be saved",
and what these mean, and what they entail for our lives? I won't repeat
him.
6. Confessing, standard, etc.:
our level of mutual intimacy does not permit me to go into detail, David,
about the sins I confess. In any case, for purposes of the statements TTers
have been making about remaining sinful and being acceptable to God, it is
not about which sins or how many. If I am not completely sinless, I am
sinful. Should I expect growth and change in specific areas? Of course; I am
being saved, after all. Does it happen? Yes. Does it happen fast enough to
satisfy you? I do not care. Does it happen as a result of you telling me God
is going to lay charges against me? No.
7. Getting out of jail free:
Actually, David, that is what it is all about. We aren't even on parole.
Another has served our time and cleared our record.
That's all the time and ink I
want to spend on that.
Debbie
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