Debbie wrote: > 1. Why "flux": As has already been established ad > nauseam, I disagree with you about biblical interpretation: > I think it happens, and you don't. (Or is it that you think > you always interpret aright? I forget.) You think it's possible > to be certain about most everything, and I don't. You think > that's the point, and I don't. I sometimes change my mind, > and yours is immutable.
You grossly misunderstand my perspective. I agree that interpretation does go on. What I disagree with is that our own interpretation is all that we have. I believe that there is right interpretation and wrong interpretation. I believe that we can know the mind of Christ, just as we can know that we are saved. While I believe that it is possible to be certain about most everything, I myself am not. I am uncertain about most things and only certain about relatively few things. Debbie wrote: > 2. Teachings of men on par with HS: > Certainly not those of men. (Oh--did you mean "people"?) > But seriously: see #1. Yes, people is fine, but I meant men like Wright, Torrance, Dunn, etc. Debbie wrote: > 3. Comparing self with others: I acknowledge this > was not explicit in your post. Sorry. I inferred from > your not wanting to be Caroline on judgment day > that you preferred to be yourself on that occasion, > as you would fare better. Not at all. You know what I meant. Now it seems you are playing a word game ... sophistry. Debbie wrote: > If that's not the case, who would you like to be? > And as for such a concept never entering your mind: > "empty words". It is abundantly clear from many of > your posts that you consider yourself more righteous > than those you are addressing. And perhaps you are, > after all. Otherwise you would be busy taking logs > out of your eyes. I do not think of myself as righteous. There is only one who is righteous, and that is Christ. We need to let Christ live through us, and those who proclaim the name of Christ have an obligation to forsake sin and live like Jesus lived, which was a righteous and holy life. We also have an obligation to each other, to provoke one another to love and good works. Therefore, if we see anything that is not of Christ, we should address it and help one another forsake that which is not of Christ. Debbie wrote: > 4. Extremely embarrassed to come before the Lord > and have this brought up: (a) We are before the Lord > at all times. Good point. Some people seem to forget that. Debbie wrote: > (b) Do you really think he is logging incidents and shelving > the ledger each time in order to bring it all up later? Jesus taught that we would give account for every idle word (Mat. 12:36-37). Do you believe this teaching? Debbie wrote: > Forgive me, David, but your god sounds very much like > the Accuser! Hmmm. Forgive me, but I think Satan thinks the same way. He does not like the idea of Judgment. Debbie wrote: > God's agenda in saving us is to change us into the people he wants-- > as soon as possible. I agree. Debbie wrote: > Throughout our lives, God draws our attention to things appropriate > to our stage, and may take startling measures to do so when necessary > (see various posts of Caroline's). Agreed. None of this negates the concept of our giving account to God on the day of eternal judgment. Debbie wrote: > The rest of what you say, about confessing and repenting, > seems to suggest you agree with this. Right. I do. Debbie wrote: > Why would he be saving it up in order to nail us > with it? See #1. The day of Judgment is for everyone. No man is exempt from the day of Judgment. Every man will give account for the things he has done, whether it be good or whether it be bad. If he brings up the good we have done, he also will bring up the bad. As for reasons... that is a long answer. Maybe we can discuss it in another thread. Debbie wrote: > (c) There is absolutely no difference between "#($&%" and > "You espouse a doctrine of demons" or "You are of your father > the devil". The latter are just "good KJV biblical lingo". Besides, > she wasn't saying it. She was quoting it. :-) I'm not sure what you mean by saying that she was quoting it. She compared a saying of Jesus with cursing someone out. I take offense at this because it impugns the character of Christ. Now you have introduced a new comparison here by your reference to my statement concerning "doctrine of demons." Do you not believe in doctrines of demons? Do you think that this is only an emotive ploy? I am very serious and sincere when I make this statement. I am not speaking in jest, nor am I cursing anyone out. I believe in doctrines of demons and I think it is helpful to identify them in our society so that we as believers might forsake them. Debbie wrote: > 5. Joking/unconcerned about sin: > No one here is. Caroline said she was joking about it. Go back and read her posts. Look for the smilies in the original posts. Debbie wrote: > It's just that you regularly mis-hear people. Yes, even as you regularly "mis-hear" me. Nevertheless, sometimes I think I hear people better than they hear themselves. Therefore, I speak. Debbie wrote: > If it "seems" to you that believing we are already > saved is making us apathetic, No, I am not saying that. I am saying that the concept that Bill Taylor has expressed, about everyone being born already reconciled to God, and that they don't even need to have faith to be saved, has resulted in a emotionally positive benefit to people who should be mourning over their sin. Instead of dealing with their sin at the cross, they consider sin part of the normal Christian life. That is anathema to me. We should live like Jesus, not the devil. The devil sins, not Jesus. Therefore, those who sin are of the devil. Those who do not sin are of Jesus. But this sound doctrine irritates the ears of those who espouse the doctrine of reconciliation being taught by some in this forum. That concerns me greatly. I see more remorse over sin by homeless guys at the park when I preach Christ than those who are relishing over how they are forgiven but continue in sin and continue to fall short of God's glory. Debbie wrote: > Besides, as to already being saved, and your difficulty > hearing people: have you noticed John's posts about > "have been saved", "are being saved", "will be saved", > and what these mean, and what they entail for our lives? > I won't repeat him. Yes. I thought that was a pretty good post, but I did not dwell on it too long for fear that I might see something in it that I would have to address! :-) John has an unusual tension toward me so I am somewhat timid to correspond with him. Debbie wrote: > 6. Confessing, standard, etc.: our level of mutual intimacy > does not permit me to go into detail, David, about the sins > I confess. Oh, dear. I was afraid of that. I get the picture. Debbie wrote: > In any case, for purposes of the statements TTers have > been making about remaining sinful and being acceptable > to God, it is not about which sins or how many. If I am > not completely sinless, I am sinful. The reason I ask about frequency is because I wonder if you agree with Lance about the idea that every human sins daily. For example, do you think Terri Shiavo while dying on her bed was sinning every day? I don't. What kind of sin could she be committing? Have you ever been very sick and spent the whole day in bed recovering, maybe praying to the Lord in your calamity? Did you sin that day? I believe that Jesus died to deliver us from the consciousness of sin, and this viewpoint that every human sins daily is a doctrine of demons (IMO). We need to examine this teaching very closely and judge it as false. Debbie wrote: > Should I expect growth and change in specific areas? > Of course; I am being saved, after all. Does it happen? > Yes. Does it happen fast enough to satisfy you? > I do not care. Good! Does it happen fast enough to satisfy God, that is what is important! Debbie wrote: > Does it happen as a result of you telling me God > is going to lay charges against me? No. No fear of God? The reason is because you do not believe me. Debbie wrote: > 7. Getting out of jail free: Actually, David, that is what > it is all about. We aren't even on parole. Another has > served our time and cleared our record. He has done more than that! He has made us new creatures in Him. Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
