Who is ignorant?
Bothoms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Kevin--Slander (and ignorance) will get you nowhere.--Raymond
Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Satans footprints are all over your "religion" because he is the father of it.Joe was an occultist, "seized" by Satan see JSH 1
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Blaine: Yeah, I read it, Kevin. I am off work today, so have plenty of time. All it seems to be saying is that whenever the Saints are about to receive spiritual gifts, or other manifestations of God's love and mercy, the "man of sin," or the devil, tries to block it. He is the opposition. He works through you, Kevin, as you go to great lengths to discourage us from learning the truth. Wierd, though, often what you write has the opposite of your intended effect. It sure does on me. I actually enjoy some of what you dig up. LOL
ANYONE INTERESTED IN FOLLOWING this?
Joe meets the ANGEL of LIGHT and is SEIZED and binds tongue
JSH http://scriptures.lds.org/js_h/1 I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocally
After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon by some power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.... I saw a pillar of light
What is with the SPIRIT of DUMBNESS?
HC V1 p 175 HC chap XV
ON the 3rd1 of June, the Elders from the various parts of the country where they were laboring; Important came in; and the conference before appointed, convened in Kirtland; and the Lord displayed His power to the most perfect satisfaction of the Saints. The man of sin was revealed,2 and the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood was manifested and conferred for the first time upon several of the Elders
footnote
The manner in which the man of sin was revealed and the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood manifested is related by John Whitmer in his History of the Church (ch. 7). After giving the names of those who were ordained High Priests the day on which the two powers were manifested he says: “Joseph Smith, Jun. prophesied the day previous that the man of sin would be revealed While the Lord poured out His Spirit upon His servants the devil took a notion to make known his power He bound Harvey Whitlock and John Murdock so that they could not speak, and others were affected but the Lord showed to Joseph, the seer the design of the thing he commanded the devil in the name of Christ and he departed to our joy and comfort.”
CAN YOU SEE THE SIGNS?
Parley P Pratt Autobiography p 72 "In this conference much instruction was given by President Smith, who spoke in great power, as he was moved upon by the Holy Ghost: and the spirtit of power and of testimony rested down upon the Elders in a marvelous manner. here also were some STRANGE MANIFESTATIONS of FALSE SPIRITS, which were immediately rebuked."
SAME MANIFESTATION THAT OVERTOOK JOE IN THE SACRED GROVE
In Kirtland, Ohio, in June, 1831,... the first High Priests were ordained.... When they were ordained, right there at the time, the devil caught and bound Harvey Whitlock so he could not speak, his face twisted into demon-like shape. Also John Murdock and others were caught by the devil in a similar manner. Now brethren, do you not see that the displeasure of the Lord was upon their proceedings, in ordaining High Priests? Of course it was (AATABIC, pp....64-65).
Account of missionaries to great britain Church History and Modern Revelation by Joseph Fielding Smith, pp. 98,99.
It is recorded that about daybreak Sunday, July 10, 1837, Elder Isaac Russell who had been selected to preach at the Obelisk in Preston marketplace that day, and who occupied the second story of the lodging of the elders in Wilford Street, went up to the third loft where Elders Hyde and Kimball were sleeping, and called upon them to pray for him, that he might be delivered from the evil spirits that were tormenting him to such a degree that he felt he could not live long unless he obtained relief. The story is a most interesting one, but one that chilled the blood of the elders. It is told as follows by Elder Kimball:
"I had been sleeping on the back of the bed. I immediately arose, slipped off at the foot of the bed, and passed around to where he [Elder Russell] was. Elder Hyde threw his feet out, and sat up in the bed, and we laid hands on him, I being mouth, and prayed that the Lord would have mercy on him, and rebuke the devil.
"While thus engaged, I was struck with great force by some invisible power, and fell senseless on the floor. The first thing I recollected was being supported by Elders Hyde and Richards who were praying for me, Elder Richards having followed Russell up to my room. Elders Hyde and Richards then assisted me to get on the bed, but my agony was so great I could not endure it, and I arose, bowed my knees and prayed. I then arose and sat up on the bed, when a vision was opened to our minds, and we could distinctly see the evil spirits, who foamed and gnashed their teeth at us. We gazed upon them about an hour and a half (by Willard's watch). We were not looking towards the window, but towards the wall. Space appeared before us, and we saw the devils coming in legions, with their leaders, who came within a few feet of us. They came towards us like armies rushing to battle. They appeared to be men of full stature, possessing every form and feature of men in the flesh, who were angry and desperate; and I shall never forget the vindictive m
alignity depicted on their countenances as they looked me in the eye; and any attempt to paint the scene which then presented itself or portray their malice and enmity, would be vain. I perspired exceedingly, my clothes becoming as wet as if I had been taken out of the river. I felt excessive pain, and was in the greatest distress for some time. I cannot even look back on the scene without feelings of horror; yet by it I learned the power of the adversary, his enmity against the servants of God, and got some understanding of the invisible world. We distinctly heard these spirits talk and express their wrath and hellish designs against us. However, the Lord delivered us from them, and blessed us exceedingly that day."
Elder Hyde supplemented this description as follows:
"Every circumstance that occurred at that scene of devils is just as fresh in my recollection at this moment as it was at the moment of its occurrence, and will ever remain so. After you were overcome by them and had fallen, their awful rush upon me with knives, threats, imprecations and hellish grins, amply convinced me that they were no friends of mine. While you were apparently senseless [page 100] and lifeless on the floor and upon the bed (after we had laid you there), I stood between you and the devils and fought them and contended with them face to face, until they began to diminish in number and to retreat from the room. The last imp that left turned around to me as he was going out and said, as if to apologize, and appease my determined opposition to them, 'I never said anything against you!' I replied to him thus: 'It matters not to me whether you have or have not; you are a liar from the beginning! In the name of Jesus Christ depart!' He immediately left, and the room was clear. That closed the scene of devils for the ti
me." D.H....C. 2:503. "Life of Heber C. Kimball," pp. 130 131.)
Missionary Letter dated: Sept. 2, 1837
by Apostle Heber C. Kimball From The Elder's Journal, pp. 4-7
A singular circumstance occurred before morning, which I will quote from Brother Hyde's journal, as he wrote it down. He commences as follows: "Elder Russell was much troubled with evil spirits and came into the room where Elder Kimball and myself were sleeping and desired us to lay our hands on him and rebuke the evil spirit. I arose upon the bed and Br. Kimball got upon the floor and I sat upon the bed. We laid our hands on him and Brother Kimball rebuked and prayed for him but just before he had finished his prayer, his voice faltered and his mouth was shut and he began to tremble and reel to and fro and fell on the floor like a dead man, and uttered a deep groan. I immediately seized him by the shoulder and lifted him up, being satisfied that the devils were exceeding angry because we attempted to cast them out of Brother Russel and they made a powerful attempt upon Elder Kimball as if to dispatch him at once. They struck him senseless and he fell to the floor. Brother Russel and myself then laid our hands on Elder Kimba
ll and rebuked the evil spirits, in the name of Jesus Christ, and immediately he recovered his strength in part so as to get up. The sweat began to roll from him most powerfully and he was almost as wet as if he had been taken out of the water. We could very sensibly hear the evil spirits rage and foam out their shame. Brother Kimball was quite weak for a day or two after. It seems that the devils are determined to destroy us and prevent the truth from being declared in England." The devil was mad because I was going to baptize and he wanted to destroy me that I should not do those things the Lord sent me to do. We had a great struggle to deliver ourselves from his hands.
Please note: message attached
Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:30:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Founder of Mormonism, was Mormon Underwear, was "baptism"
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
ANYONE INTERESTED IN FOLLOWING this?Joe meets the ANGEL of LIGHT and is SEIZED and binds tongueJSH http://scriptures.lds.org/js_h/1 I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocallyAfter I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon by some power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.... I saw a pillar of lightWhat is with the SPIRIT of DUMBNESS?HC V1 p 175 HC chap XV
ON the 3rd1 of June, the Elders from the various parts of the country where they were laboring; Important came in; and the conference before appointed, convened in Kirtland; and the Lord displayed His power to the most perfect satisfaction of the Saints. The man of sin was revealed,2 and the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood was manifested and conferred for the first time upon several of the Eldersfootnote
The manner in which the man of sin was revealed and the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood manifested is related by John Whitmer in his History of the Church (ch. 7). After giving the names of those who were ordained High Priests the day on which the two powers were manifested he says: “Joseph Smith, Jun. prophesied the day previous that the man of sin would be revealed While the Lord poured out His Spirit upon His servants the devil took a notion to make known his power He bound Harvey Whitlock and John Murdock so that they could not speak, and others were affected but the Lord showed to Joseph, the seer the design of the thing he commanded the devil in the name of Christ and he departed to our joy and comfort.”CAN YOU SEE THE SIGNS?
Parley P Pratt Autobiography p 72 "In this conference much instruction was given by President Smith, who spoke in great power, as he was moved upon by the Holy Ghost: and the spirtit of power and of testimony rested down upon the Elders in a marvelous manner. here also were some STRANGE MANIFESTATIONS of FALSE SPIRITS, which were immediately rebuked."SAME MANIFESTATION THAT OVERTOOK JOE IN THE SACRED GROVEIn Kirtland, Ohio, in June, 1831,... the first High Priests were ordained.... When they were ordained, right there at the time, the devil caught and bound Harvey Whitlock so he could not speak, his face twisted into demon-like shape. Also John Murdock and others were caught by the devil in a similar manner. Now brethren, do you not see that the displeasure of the Lord was upon their proceedings, in ordaining High Priests? Of course it was (AATABIC, pp.64-65).Account of missionaries to great britain Church History and Modern Revelation by Joseph Fielding Smith, pp. 98,99.It is recorded that about daybreak Sunday, July 10, 1837, Elder Isaac Russell who had been selected to preach at the Obelisk in Preston marketplace that day, and who occupied the second story of the lodging of the elders in Wilford Street, went up to the third loft where Elders Hyde and Kimball were sleeping, and called upon them to pray for him, that he might be delivered from the evil spirits that were tormenting him to such a degree that he felt he could not live long unless he obtained relief. The story is a most interesting one, but one that chilled the blood of the elders. It is told as follows by Elder Kimball:"I had been sleeping on the back of the bed. I immediately arose, slipped off at the foot of the bed, and passed around to where he [Elder Russell] was. Elder Hyde threw his feet out, and sat up in the bed, and we laid hands on him, I being mouth, and prayed that the Lord would have mercy on him, and rebuke the devil."While thus engaged, I was struck with great force by some invisible power, and fell senseless on the floor. The first thing I recollected was being supported by Elders Hyde and Richards who were praying for me, Elder Richards having followed Russell up to my room. Elders Hyde and Richards then assisted me to get on the bed, but my agony was so great I could not endure it, and I arose, bowed my knees and prayed. I then arose and sat up on the bed, when a vision was opened to our minds, and we could distinctly see the evil spirits, who foamed and gnashed their teeth at us. We gazed upon them about an hour and a half (by Willard's watch). We were not looking towards the window, but towards the wall. Space appeared before us, and we saw the devils coming in legions, with their leaders, who came within a few feet of us. They came towards us like armies rushing to battle. They appeared to be men of full stature, possessing every form and feature of men in the flesh, who were angry and desperate; and I shall never forget the vindictive malignity depicted on their countenances as they looked me in the eye; and any attempt to paint the scene which then presented itself or portray their malice and enmity, would be vain. I perspired exceedingly, my clothes becoming as wet as if I had been taken out of the river. I felt excessive pain, and was in the greatest distress for some time. I cannot even look back on the scene without feelings of horror; yet by it I learned the power of the adversary, his enmity against the servants of God, and got some understanding of the invisible world. We distinctly heard these spirits talk and express their wrath and hellish designs against us. However, the Lord delivered us from them, and blessed us exceedingly that day."Elder Hyde supplemented this description as follows:"Every circumstance that occurred at that scene of devils is just as fresh in my recollection at this moment as it was at the moment of its occurrence, and will ever remain so. After you were overcome by them and had fallen, their awful rush upon me with knives, threats, imprecations and hellish grins, amply convinced me that they were no friends of mine. While you were apparently senseless [page 100] and lifeless on the floor and upon the bed (after we had laid you there), I stood between you and the devils and fought them and contended with them face to face, until they began to diminish in number and to retreat from the room. The last imp that left turned around to me as he was going out and said, as if to apologize, and appease my determined opposition to them, 'I never said anything against you!' I replied to him thus: 'It matters not to me whether you have or have not; you are a liar from the beginning! In the name of Jesus Christ depart!' He immediately left, and the room was clear. That closed the scene of devils for the time." D.H.C. 2:503. "Life of Heber C. Kimball," pp. 130 131.)Missionary Letter dated: Sept. 2, 1837
by Apostle Heber C. Kimball From The Elder's Journal, pp. 4-7
A singular circumstance occurred before morning, which I will quote from Brother Hyde's journal, as he wrote it down. He commences as follows: "Elder Russell was much troubled with evil spirits and came into the room where Elder Kimball and myself were sleeping and desired us to lay our hands on him and rebuke the evil spirit. I arose upon the bed and Br. Kimball got upon the floor and I sat upon the bed. We laid our hands on him and Brother Kimball rebuked and prayed for him but just before he had finished his prayer, his voice faltered and his mouth was shut and he began to tremble and reel to and fro and fell on the floor like a dead man, and uttered a deep groan. I immediately seized him by the shoulder and lifted him up, being satisfied that the devils were exceeding angry because we attempted to cast them out of Brother Russel and they made a powerful attempt upon Elder Kimball as if to dispatch him at once. They struck him senseless and he fell to the floor. Brother Russel and myself then laid our hands on Elder Kimball and rebuked the evil spirits, in the name of Jesus Christ, and immediately he recovered his strength in part so as to get up. The sweat began to roll from him most powerfully and he was almost as wet as if he had been taken out of the water. We could very sensibly hear the evil spirits rage and foam out their shame. Brother Kimball was quite weak for a day or two after. It seems that the devils are determined to destroy us and prevent the truth from being declared in England." The devil was mad because I was going to baptize and he wanted to destroy me that I should not do those things the Lord sent me to do. We had a great struggle to deliver ourselves from his hands.
Charles Perry Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>Perry wrote:
>>Holey skivvies with masonic emblems on them...the square and the compass.
>>Tools of the craft.
Raymond wrote:
>Hmmmm... It's clear that you are in attack mode.
Since when is mentioning a fact about mormon undergarments an attack? How
can we reasonably discuss facts if, when I mention them, you perceive it as
an attack?
>But I would have you know that there major difference between masonic
>rituals and LDS temple ceremony. Although, you wouldn't know that would
>you.
I know that there are differences...but it is the similarities that
interest me. As for what I do and do not know, I am neither a freemason nor
a mormon. So, I have learned what I know by reading about both. There may be
errors in what I have read. If you see error in what I have read, and
stated, then please correct me, but please give me references so I can
verify them for myself.
>The teachings in the temple have nothing to do with 'Tools of the craft.'
>You've been reading to much anti-Mormon literature. You should spend more
>time learning truth.
I did not say that the teachings in the temple have anything to do with
'Tools of the craft'. I was referring specifically to the square and compass
being 'tools of the craft', where 'the craft' is freemasonry, and their
presence on mormon underwear. Do you know anyting about freemasonry? Are you
a freemason?
The thing that interests me about the 'tools of the craft' (freemasonry
being 'the craft') being embroidered onto the mormon underwear is why JS
chose to use these symbols of freemasonry on the underwear. Did he 'borrow'
the symbology from freemasonry? Did he receive a revelation or vision that
he should use these symbols on the underwear? Do you think that the use of
these symbols by freemasons pre-dates JS's use of them on the underwear? If
JS received revelation about using these, please refer me to the document
that states the revelation so I can read it for myself. I prefer not to read
some mormon's biased commentary about it...I prefer the original source.
Perry
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www......InnGlory.org
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