Re: [TruthTalk] community and the Kingdom of God

[knpraise]

 

This is just how far out in lala land you are, Kevin.   Those on both sides of the divide are scratching their heads  (except, perhaps, Izzy), wondering just exactly what your point is in all this.   I feel a little silly reminding you that "be fruitful and multipy" come from  Gen 1:28.   amazingly weird.

 

Jd

 

 

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:35:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] community and the Kingdom of God

JD says "be fruitful and multiply"  is something you disagree with? 

 

When God destroyed every living soul on the Face of the Earth except for the 8 that got in the Ark, was he disagreeing with: "be fruitful and multiply" ?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

"be fruitful and multiply"  is something you disagree with?   Absolutely nothing humanistic about it.  Try something else  or maybe you do not understand what "humanism" actually means when realted to a theological discussion.   

 

Jd

 

 

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:08:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] community and the Kingdom of God

 Man was created for the expressed purpose of the expansion of community  (ye shall be fruitful and multiply) ?..

 

And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Let's take the first paragraph of your response below:  tell me how you can read my article, with an honest heart, and conclude that it is written with a view of prersenting humanism as opposed to a God-centered faith?   I say that such is IMPOSSIBLE.  

 

JD 

 
-----Original Message-----
From: ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:49:46 -0500
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] community and the Kingdom of God

Thanks for asking, JD.  To me humanism is the religion worshipping humans.  Putting humans and humanistic thinking ahead of God and thinking according to God?s Word.  I have no idea how DM would define it.  I also don?t appreciate your insinuation that I get my ideas from DM. 

 

Regarding your post, it sounded ?nice? and all.  But a religion that spends time promoting ?Community? is off-base IMO.  The true Church is not about promoting the community of humans, but is all about lifting up Jesus Christ as Lord of Lords and King of Kings.  The true community which springs from that as a byproduct is truly wonderful, as you seem to understand.  Izzy

 

PS Here is how a Humanist defines Humanism: http://www.jcn.com/humanism.html.  (Is it NOT Christianity.)

 

---

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 10:18 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] community and the Kingdom of God

 

Well, it most certainly is not humanism, Linda.   Or maybe I should ask what you think humanism is before going any further.  David M accused me of the same thing  -- perhaps this is where you got the idea.   He too, left off giving me a definition.  

 

What was written below is a first draft attempt at continuing the task of understanding, on my part.  It could not be more God centered  -- so how is it humanism.   What is you defintion?

 

Jd 

-----Original Message-----
From: ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 09:47:48 -0500
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] community and the Kingdom of God

JD, all this talk of community above everything else just comes across to me as humanism.  Lift us Jesus and all men will be drawn unto Him, and coincidentally to each other?s fellowship.  It?s a priority thing. Izzy

 

---

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 12:03 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] community and the Kingdom of God

 

 

 

Thinking Out Loud (again).  Some of these thoughts and  wording comes from From Cells to Souls  --  a section in that  book written by Alan Torrance.   The following is a combination of AT?s thinking and my understanding of the importance of his presentations.  

 

In search of a truly heuristic consequence,  many have involved themselves in the recovery of the gospel story as realized in the triune God and the Sonship of Christ.

?Christians acknowledge that the complexity of the world is irreducible to anything other than the simplest explanation of all   ---   the God who has created persons in his image for personal communion with himself, with each other and, indeed,  with all the other sentient beings which contribute o to the richness of the world we know. ?  (p222).   And there you have it  --  ?the simplest explanation of all,?   that mankind has been created in His very image.   If there is another explanation for that image, certainly it must in clude the idea of ?community.?    

 

God loves the Son,  the Son loves the Father and the Holy Spirit is the _expression_ of each in this world and in the lives of those who are a part of His creation after The Reconciliation  (Col 1:17ff).

 

That being true,  the personal behavior of man is incomplete until expressed in the company of others  (p210).   Man was created for the expressed purpose of the expansion of community  (ye shall be fruitful and multiply) ?.. God?s covenant with Abraham had everything to do with the blessing of an increasing community of persons.  Israel was God manifest in national function.   His Christ was all about the reconciliation of all things  < /SPAN> --  a tearing down of the barriers erected in the garden, allowing the bridging of the divide created by man?s decision to chart his own course, to go his own way, to misappropr iate the revealed word of the day  [?ye shall not surely die ]  &nb sp; His church is His bride, bearing the offspring of all that reveals His power and presence   --   a community of believers that live to reveal God to a lost and confused world.   He is the Father, we are his adoptive children.   Community is written on every page and thought of God?s dealings with man.   ?The relational dimens ion of human nature? is at the centre of our very being.  It is such because and only because we have been created in that image and for that purpose.   Community is not only the image of creative endeavor, it is the very purpose for our existence.   Our identity as persons,  our true identity is manifest in freedom  (the perfect law of liberty), in presence  (ye who are spiritual help those who are weak;   pour yourselves out for the hunger, give yourselves to the afflicted and see your light shine as the noonday sun), i n   love  (the whole law is fulfilled in this, love God and love your neighbor as you love yourself),  and in communion (the fellowship of the saints and the indwelling of God, Himself, in our lives). 

 

The grand truth of the Christian faith is our participation in His personal existence as opposed to His nature   ?.   For it God at work in us to will and accomplish.   If we understand that intrinsic to His existence is this thing we call community,  we, then, unders t an d just how important it is to be a beneficial part of the larger community.  John says it this wise: &nb sp; No one has seen God at anytime but if we love one another, God abides in us and His love is perfected in us   ???.   He has given us His Spirit.

Perhaps this is where the "kingdom" comes into play.   If we understand that the kingdom of God is the sovereign rule and authority of God,  then Christ?s words  ? the kingdom is within,?  and  ?my kingdom is not of this world?  can have real and precise meaning.   If ?kingdom? in the New Covenant age is the reality and rule of God, Himself,   on any level given vision, wh ether ?thy kingdom come,?  ?you are near to the kingdom, ?  ?my father has granted me kingdom  [not ?a? kingdom],  the kingdom is not eating and drinking,?  ?heirs of the kingdom of promise,?  then, perhaps we are on our way to  understanding  ?kingdom rule.?  

 

Kingdom i s t ied irrevocably to the communion of God in man;  that is what I have come to believe.   When we speak of  sovereign rule and authority, we do the idea great injustice if we separate that rule from its inward throne   ---   the hear t and soul of man.    Kingdom rule, at whatever level, always includes His ?subjects?   That is the illusion  --   kingdom = a king and His people.   And that is His kingdom.   His influence in the people of God.< SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">    Paul says it this way:   The kingdom of God is not eating and drinking but righteousness and pea ce and joy in the Holy Spirit. 

 

Reject the notion of community and you cannot understand the Godhead, the fellowship of the saints, the purpose of creation,  the nature of God, the effect of the cross,  the vitality and importance of the church,   the indwelling spirit and kingdom rule.   The heuristic circumstance that  best pictures all these things is the consideration of community as the image of God.   All of the above and more is explained in this concept.   It is the model that best speaks to all aspects of the biblical account. 

 

JD

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