Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

[Judy Taylor]

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 17:46:06 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

No blessing?????     Judy, such a comment demonstrates just how confused you really are.  On many occasions,  

I have stated that if I were to speak of the many blessings from God,  I would make you jealous.  I will leave it at that.  

 

jt: You wouldn't be making me jealous JD; don't know where you would get that idea.  To each his own.

Why would you think we are trying to manipulate God?  jt

 

I explained my understanding of manipulation in the posted comments you admitted.   Why you did not read

them is beyond me. 

 

jt: Oh!  You are calling obedience "manipulation" - what a travesty. We truly are in the last days when men will not

endure sound doctrine. We didn't get the necessity for obedience out of a hat you know.  As for Gary -: Honest? 

Most of the time noone knows what he is saying 

 

I assume G's honesty just as surely as I assume yours or DM.  

 

jt:  What if he is a well-meaning deceived person JD?  Would you still call that honest?  Where is discernment?

 

Works salvationism IS a doctrine of manipulation and is a false teaching.   Now, that is what I believe.  

 

jt: Nobody I know of on TT has been discussing "works salvationism" JD so this is a construct of your own mind.

Probably a roll-over from your CofC legalism trauma.  Fact is God is and always has been a God of Covenant

and his ppl are either covenant keepers or covenant breakers.  Lance has some pie in the sky idea that for us

the covenant is unilateral meaning that God does the lot and we just go on our merry way.  His doctrine may

back this up but the scriptures certainly do not.

 

I assume G feels the same.  You will disagree, of course.  We cannot help but to speak and write out of our theological construct.   Your construct  includes (apparently) the idea that you can judge a fellow Christian to be a disciple of Satan

and that you should tell them this   --  even frequently.   Ditto for kevin and shields.

 

jt:: I can discern what comes from your own mouth/keyboard John and recognize the source. Accusation is never a

blessing.  

 

DM actually does not do this (in my memory) although he might defend others for so writing.   The point, here, is that

G will speak and write from his passion.  He will see associations between your words and what you are that may

not be pleasant to you.   So what.  

 

jt: So why are you defending Gary and his one word comments?  It's not good to partake of another man's sin. 

 

All on the 'right" do this very thing many times a week.    What he nor Bill, nor Lance  (when he was with us) nor Slade nor Debbie nor Caroline Wong, or myself have ever placed any of you in the very camp of Satan  --  being one with him,  motivated by him and hatred for Believers.  I prefer G's "harshness" to yours, in this case and accept his response as an honest response. 

 

jt: Why is it offensive to you to realize your mouth can and is being used by the wrong spirit?  Jesus said the same

to the sons of thunder; he told them they didn't know what spirit they were of.  He flat out confronted Peter and said

"Get behind me Satan, you savour the things of man rather than the things of God" (my paraphrase).  Obedience

is not works it is normal christian living. 

 

"not justified by works of law"  can only be understood as "not saved by obedience to law."  

 

jt: We are saved by obedience to Christ who said "If you love me you will do what I say"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 15:27:28 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

JD David is right, I have been trying to get you to see what you are doing and it is for your/Gary's sake as much

as ours because not only does continual accusation wear us out - You/Gary will never reap blessing so long as

you are allowing the adversary to use you this way.

 

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 14:54:46 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

One additional comment.   Your post below justifies Judy's very bad behavior, ignoring the possibility that

Gary was hoping that Judy (and then Linda) would see their actions as, in reality, an attempt to manipulate God.  

 

jt: We are not entirely stupid JD; why would you think we are trying to manipulate God?

 

 "If I do this and that,  then I can expect God to do that and this."   Such can be considered manipulation  -- 

 

jt: Not when one has learned to know His ways and walk in them JD. This is where the blessings of obedience

happen.  God always longed for Israel to want to know His ways but they preferred His acts - only Moses knew

them and had the ppl wearing him out night and day wanting him to make spiritual judgments between them.

 

especially when such thinking is not founded in scripture  (i.e.works salvation)   Now, whether Gary's theological

opinion is correct, and I think it is,  his willingness to be honest in his appraisal without accusing either Judy or

Linda of being disciples of Satan can be seen as a very commendable action.  

 

jt: Honest?  Most of the time noone knows what he is saying but lately he has been openly accusing so I don't

know how you would reach such a consensus JD.   Once more - obedience is not works it is normal christian

living.  judyt

 

 

 

 

  -----Original Message-----
From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:03:29 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

JD wrote:

> Judy writes this  YOU ARE ONE WITH THE ACCUSER

> That sort of tripe is ad hom at its core.

 

Yes, John, it is, but you seem to overlook that she was responding to a personal insult.  If a man slugs another man, and the man he slugs then slugs back, is it really fair to focus all our criticism on the man who slugged back in response to the first?  I'm not trying to justify her, but help you see that others are provoking her and it would be best if we got to the root of the problem.  Ideally, it would be best if we all turned the other cheek, but if that does not happen, we try and stop the root of the problem and then the rest is taken care of as a result.

 

Furthermore, there is actually a big difference in what Judy is saying and that of the initial accuser.  It seems to me that Judy is hoping to help the one who is doing the initial accusing to see that he is cooperating with spiritual forces that perhaps he does not mean to be.  In other words, she is trying to help him see why he has become an accuser himself and hoping that realization will cause him to correct his misbehavior.

 

Peace be with you.
David Miller.