Re: [TruthTalk] an argument from the gay community for homosecuality

[Judith H Taylor]

JD, a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. You will never talk a practising homosexual who likes what he is doing out of it.  This man has a spiritual problem and can not free himself from bondage to this unclean spirit until like the prodigal son - he sees the pigpen for what it is he will never want to be free from it.  This sin (as gross as it is) is  apparently pleasurable for a season - but then there is always payday looming in the not so distant future. This man needs to hear the truth that his choice is between God and freedom in Christ and the wrath of God along with the continued bondage that accompanies his chosen lifestyle.  judyt   On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 22:12:30 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: The gay guy who caves in does not enter the Kingdom of God.  Faggot tripe is just the facts about that kind of blasphemous drivel.  It is an insult to God and His Word.  People who don’t like the truth call that hate or judgmental.  But it’s the truth, and that’s just the way it is. You don’t have to agree, but you do have to allow for others’ opinions because there is nothing you can do about it, basically.  I’m sure you can deal with it.  izzy   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 8:24 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] an argument from the gay community for homosecuality     You are such a  tender hearted woman.   What is the guy (gay) is trying to deal with the problem but caves in ?    And why is it ok for one to be hateful and judgmental but not homosexual?    JD       -----Original Message----- From: ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:12:10 -0500 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] an argument from the gay community for homosecuality To you this is "well stated"??? To me it is too typical faggot tripe. And, FYI, there is no such thing as a "Christian homosexual".   izzy   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:20 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] an argument from the gay community for homosecuality     In case you were curious,  here is a rather well stated argument for homosexuality.  Enjoy.    JD            The Bible has often been used as a weapon to condemn homosexuality as sinful or immoral. It is often overlooked and even outrightly denied that some of the heroes in the Bible were themselves homosexual. The story of Jonathan and David is one of the more obvious cases. For the sake of simplicity, I'll let the Bible itself unfold most of the story. After David's heroic victory over the Philistine giant, Goliath, in 1 Samual, Chapter 17, David meets Jonathan for the first time. 1 And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. 2 And Saul took him that day, and would let him go no more home to his father's house. 3 Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul. 4 And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, a nd to his bow, and to his girdle. 1 Samuel 18: 1-4 Their souls are knit together, they love each other so much that they made a covenant with each other, and Jonathan, son of the King, strips before David, who is much lower in rank and status. In the next passages, David's popularity and military achievements are advanced, and King Saul starts getting jealous of all the attention being paid to David. In order to trap him, Saul makes David his son-in-law by giving him his daughter, Michal, to wed. Some people may stop right here and say that if David married Michal, it's proof that he didn't have a homosexual relationship with Jonathan. There are several flaws to this argument. First, their marriage was probably only political. Saul offers his daughter's hand in marriage only as part of a greater plot to get at David. And while it was said that Michal loved David, the Bible never says that he loved her back. Also, we know from other ancient cultures such as the Greeks and even the Philistines, that heterosexual marriages weren't necessarily exclusive. It's very possible that David could have been bisexual. In 1 Samuel 19, Saul tries to kill David, and David eventually flees in 1 Samuel 20. 1 And David fled from Naioth in Ramah, and came and said before Jonathan, What have I done? what is mine iniquity? and what is my sin before thy father, that he seeketh my life? 2 And he said unto him, God forbid; thou shalt not die: behold, my father will do nothing either great or small, but that he will shew it me: and why should my father hide this thing from me? it is not so. 3 And David sware moreover, and said, Thy father certainly knoweth that I have found grace in thine eyes; and he saith, Let not Jonathan know this, lest he be grieved: but truly as the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, there is but a step between me and death. 4 Then said Jonathan unto David, Whatsoever thy soul desireth, I will even do it for thee. 1 Samuel 20: 3-4 David and Jonathan continue talking about what to do about Jonathan's father. Then they part ways so Jonathan can go somewhere safe. Again they make a covenant with each other, and swear their love for each other. Jonathan loved David "as he loved his own soul". 16 So Jonathan made a covenant with the house of David, saying, Let the LORD even require it at the hand of David's enemies. 17 And Jonathan caused David to swear again, because he loved him: for he loved him as he loved his own soul. 1 Samuel 20: 16-17 In the next passages, they plan to meet again so that Jonathan can let David know whether he should come back safe from Saul, or whether he should go away. And Jonathan talks to his father. Saul tells Jonathan that he is confused in his love for David. He also says that as long as David is around, Jonathan won't establish his lineage or kingdom. This certainly has all the elements of a com ing out story. 30 Then Saul's anger was kindled against Jonathan, and he said unto him, Thou son of the perverse rebellious woman, do not I know that thou hast chosen the son of Jesse to thine own confusion, and unto the confusion of thy mother's nakedness? 31 For as long as the son of Jesse liveth upon the ground, thou shalt not be established, nor thy kingdom. Wherefore now send and fetch him unto me, for he shall surely die. 1 Samuel 20: 30-31 Jonathan warns David that his father is still angry, and that he's not safe. They reaffirm their covenant to each other, kiss each other, cry over the situation, and I'm not even going to try to interpret what it might mean when the passage says "David exceeded". 41 And as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of a place toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himself three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded. 42 And Jonath an said to David, Go in peace, forasmuch as we have sworn both of us in the name of the LORD, saying, The LORD be between me and thee, and between my seed and thy seed for ever. And he arose and departed: and Jonathan went into the city. 1 Samuel 20: 41-42 In 2 Samuel 1, David hears about the death of Saul and Jonathan in battle. He mourns their deaths, and remembers his times together with Jonathan stating that Jonathan's love for him was stronger than Jonathan's love for women. 25 How are the mighty fallen in the midst of the battle! O Jonathan, thou wast slain in thine high places. 26 I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women. 2 Samuel 1:26 Well that's their story as told in the Holy Bible. There are other Bible heroes that are rumoured to have been gay or lesbian. Among them are Ruth and Naomi, Daniel and an eunuch, and the Apostle Paul (though if he wa s, he had his own issues with sexuality).