RE: [TruthTalk] Back tot he garden

[ShieldsFamily]

Why on earth does that surprise you, Bill?  I’m curious.  Don’t all Bible believing “fundies” believe that??? Iz  5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of (H)water and the Spirit he cannot enter into (I)the kingdom of God. 6"(J)That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Taylor Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:10 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Back tot he garden   Iz writes  > . . . one must be born again of the Spirit to become a Believer . . .   Our Calvinist friend from Australia would agree with that one (in fact, I even agree with it, for different reasons of course) -- but I'm darned surprised that you do.   Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:17 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Back tot he garden   I don’t think God had a “Plan B”, but always foreknew what Adam and Eve would do, being made of mere flesh.  Redemption was not Plan B, but Plan A.  I think we agree on that.  However you seem confused about the fact that Christ fulfilled the law so we don’t have to.  Yes, we do have to, as He was our Example to follow.  No, we don’t keep the Levitical rites or the Talmud (man’s teaching), as they have no place in our lives where there is no temple and we are not under a Theocratic government as the Jews were.  But we ARE to keep the Commandments of God throughout scripture, from Genesis to Revelations that apply to everyone.  If you wonder if it is a commandment we should keep, better to err on the side of obeying it! We are to MORE than keep them, we are to keep the heart and meaning of them, which means going above and beyond them by walking not only in the outer form of obedience to them but by walking in love from the inner Holy Spirit infused heart.  His Commandments are outer guidelines by which we can test our inner heart.  If we cannot keep even the outer shell of the Commandments of God, how then can we think we are even close to walking in the love of God or man? Jesus did not fulfill the Law so that we could violate or ignore the Law.  He came to make it possible and reasonable for us to KEEP His Commandments.  This is something that any Believer can and should do.  But one must be born again of the Spirit to become a Believer, and then must walk in faith that he is empowered to do so. Iz   John 14:15 " If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.   John 14:21 " He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."   Exodus 20:6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 11:45 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Back tot he garden   I know you can't be more brief  --  but could you be more specific as in "why 'no'?"   I know that David and Judy opt out of answering   difficult questions  --  what about you.   Specifically, what is wrong with what I have said below?   JD -----Original Message----- From: ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:10:44 -0500 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Back tot he garden No.   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 11:19 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Back tot he garden      This is something i wrote to a friend about the Garde even and perichoresis.  Am I on the right track with this?        I am not one who believes in a "plan B" redemptive theology, put into play when God's original plan failed.    Christ was always the solution to Adam and Eve's problem, as He is for us in this day and time.   I am saying this:   the story of Adam and Eve has been included in the Message because of its  role in our understanding the purpose of the Law of God   --   something that has been fulfilled in Christ and no longer applies to God's judgment of us.   What we see with Adam and Eve is the first accounting of a Law violation.  It is one thing to be selfish, prideful< /SPAN>, bigoted and the like.   That goes to our personal ontology.   It is something else to violate an imperative from God, Himself.   Such a violation forces upon us a pathology of guilt.   I am a selfish person.   But I do not feel guilt until I actually express that selfishness in an ungodly way   --    and the Law defines that ungodliness.   In the Old Testament, God orders something, man violates this request,  God is angered and judgment occures,  man repents and via a blood sacrifice, man is righteous once again........................... a process that is repeated over and over and over again.   Under the New Covenant,  Christ dies ONCE AND FOR ALL TIME, does He not?   As a violation of the Law, sin is condemned to have no effect upon our destiny  --   AS A VIOLATION OF THE LAW.   But with the removal of this curse,  we remain unholy.   The struggle is of a New Paradigm.  With  the fulfillment of the Law,&n bsp; man and God are free to build upon and magnify the relationship between man and God  --  God working within us both to  will and do His good pleasure.   The Law proves our unrighteousness  --  gives it definition and a pathological reality that is undeniable. God's sacrifice and workings in His Son in our lives gives us an escape from this process while, at the same time,  standing as a historical reminder that our goodness is really Godness< FONT face=Verdana size=2> from within.   Read John 3:21  -   we work, we come to the light and in this light it becomes clear  (manifest) that our works HAVE BEEN  the works of God (and I add the words  "all along").